From Trauma to Triumph: Redefining Leadership and Personal Fulfillment

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And so what happens is it's kind of this idea that what fuels us fools us, because we're fueled by this belief and then it fools us into thinking that we can outwork it, and so if we don't really understand kind of our origin story, where we came from, we're likely to do that, and it ends up that we get to the place we thought would solve everything and it's actually just to start to the lesson we needed to deal with.

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Hey, uncommon Leaders, welcome back.

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This is the Uncommon Leader Podcast and I'm your host, john Gallagher.

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In today's episode, I'm thrilled to have Jason Van Ruler join us for an insightful conversation about leadership, personal growth and resilience.

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Jason, a successful author and speaker, brings a wealth of experience from running two private therapy practices and inspiring countless leaders and professionals.

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We dive into his best-selling book Get Past your Past, including the profound idea that what fuels us fools us, and how unhealthy core beliefs can deceptively drive us to success while leaving us still unfulfilled.

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So, whether you're leading a team or seeking personal growth, this episode is packed with wisdom that could truly change your life, if you let it.

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Let's get started.

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Jason VanRoehler, welcome to the Uncommon Leader Podcast.

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Great to have you on the show today.

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How are you doing, hey?

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I'm doing well.

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Thanks so much for having me, John.

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Hey, I'm looking forward to it.

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We had some previous conversations, both today and about a month ago, getting us ready.

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I know it's going to be a great conversation as we get started, but I did kind of tee you up just a little bit.

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Same first question I always ask my first-time guests, and that's to tell me a story from your childhood that still impacts who you are today as a leader or as a person as a leader or as a person?

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Yeah well, there are a lot.

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I actually tend to think in terms of stories, so I could bore you for hours, but why don't I tell you one that has hung with me for a long time and something that I actually speak about a lot with leaders, which is secrets and just the way that we try to hide things sometimes.

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And so when I was a kid, my mom went out for the night, and so we had a babysitter, and we just had a couple ground rules while my mom was gone.

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You know, I think it was like don't don't make a pizza in the oven because you burn the house down, don't stay up too late.

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And then it was no soccer in the house.

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Ok, so no soccer in the house.

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I played soccer as a kid, and so this was actually the hardest ask of all of them, and so she left, and she had maybe even gone about you know, 10 minutes or something, and this poor babysitter is, you know, just really uninterested in anything that we're doing.

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And so I have this brilliant idea you know, if we play soccer in the house now you know it's early like this could be okay, we can pick up anything we need to.

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And so what happened is that we started to kick the soccer ball.

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And I like to argue that I just was so much better than my brother I couldn't help it and I scored.

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So I kicked really hard and the ball actually like flew way around where I thought it would go and it flew through the glass door and broke it.

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Oh, okay, and so bummer, right, total bummer, because you know no soccer in the house and I broke the door.

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And so what I did, just like in my sort of child brain, I thought what would make a lot of sense is I took a towel and I taped it to the door.

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Ok, so I just used to be glass there.

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I'm going to tape this towel to the door and I'm just going to hope nobody says anything, okay?

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And so you know, I'm anxious.

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The night's going by and I'm like, okay, they're going to see how this works, right?

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So my mom comes home and I'm thinking like man, I got at least an hour or two hours before she notices, right?

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And I mean, man, how do you not notice that there's a towel hanging over your front door, right?

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So the first thing she says to me is just hey, why is there a towel on the front door?

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Were you playing soccer in the house?

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Like, instantly, I'm busted Right.

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And so in that moment I was like, oh crap.

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I just remember how it felt to have the anxiety of trying to hide the problem and the thing that I did that I wish I hadn't.

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And then also, when she knew and discovered both, the feeling of like relief strangely that like now I didn't have to worry about it anymore but then of just like why did I do that?

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And so that has always stuck with me as an adult, just like being that kid.

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And just like, hey, I want to be the guy that says, hey, I broke the door.

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Like I don't even want to make you guess, I don't want to do the towel thing, I just want to say, hey, I broke the door, my bad.

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Love that, I don't know.

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You and Peter Brady, something about playing ball in the house and breaking the base, whatever that was, I mean.

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So I've shown my age, certainly, uh, and I'm sure, but that's all I get.

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Mom always said don't play ball in the house.

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And just like she told no playing soccer in the house.

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And here you go again.

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Love that.

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Well, maybe that's part of one of your stories that, as you said, goes right along with your presenting.

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You know you do a lot of different things.

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You have started your own, two successful private therapy practices.

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You have been an author, your presenter for crowds over 6,500.

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We got all kinds of great stuff to talk about.

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I'm going to start with your book that came out about a year ago.

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That is a bestseller as well.

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Get Past your Past.

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How facing your broken windows sorry, no, it says broken places leads you to true connection.

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So your book has been successful.

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It's been your story as you grew up.

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Why did you write that book and who were you writing?

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it for yeah, I mean, I think in a lot of ways it was to my former self, right, but it's also to a lot of the clients that I work with.

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You know it's as a therapist.

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You you kind of get, you know, put in this position where people say, well, you only care about the past, that's all I want to talk about.

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And I used to say, well, no, no, no.

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And now I kind of go, well, yeah, a little, right, I do a little.

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Because the thing is is that, whether we would have what we deem to be a great childhood, or average, or poor, or however we want to call that, at the end of the day it was an instruction manual for how to live a life as an adult, and so we were just taught that for literally 18 years, and then, if we don't ever think about that again, we pretty much just replicate it.

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It's very simple, and so for people who come out of childhood and they say, I don't want to replicate that, they have a decision to make, and the decision is if I don't want to replicate it, I need to learn how to do it differently.

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And so the book was really about me having to make that choice, and then what that looked like, and then on the other end of it, just saying, like how do I help other people not be such a slow learner like I was?

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You know how do we save them some time, some money, some heartache and just get them there a little faster?

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That's funny and again, we know that, saying, as you said, you wrote it for yourself, but you really wrote it for some of the pain that you experienced going through that and how it may have helped you.

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We're most powerfully positioned to help the person that we used to be, and that's very important, so it's led you as well to really start on this speaking tour as well.

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And with regards to leaders, you get a chance to coach entrepreneur.

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You get a chance to coach businesses.

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You run your own business as well and so you have talk that you're working on now, that you're doing now seven lessons from therapy for leaders.

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So I'm sure there's a lot of stories from the book and going across there.

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When you think about it from a leadership perspective and how you see that, before you go in the lessons that we're really teaching, what are some of the problems then that leaders are facing about their past that they have to overcome?

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What do you see?

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How do you see that manifest?

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Yeah, I mean, I see it in a lot of places that, by the way, that's just such a great question.

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I mean.

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I think the thing is is like a leader who doesn't understand themselves, and their origin story is a bit dangerous, right, and they're a bit dangerous in the sense that they they're not really intentional about what they're building, because they just kind of keep building the same thing.

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And so what I see a lot of times in leaders is if people have faulty beliefs from childhood.

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An example might be like if I think that I'm never enough, that that core belief that I'm just not enough as I am will drive me to be really successful, right, That'll drive me to work lots of hours and to overproduce and to overfunction and, in many ways, be what society views as a very successful person, right.

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And then when we get there, we go well, okay, now I proved the thing to be untrue.

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Right, turns out, I can earn my worth.

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Okay, now I proved the thing to be untrue.

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Right, turns out, I can earn my worth.

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But why am I so lonely?

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Why am I so unhappy?

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And so what happens is it's kind of this idea that you know what fuels us, fools us, because we're fueled by this belief and then it fools us into thinking that we can outwork it, and so if we don't really understand kind of our origin story, where we came from, we're likely to do that.

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And it ends up that we get to the place we thought would solve everything and it's actually just to start to the lesson we needed to deal with.

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What fuels us fools us.

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I'm going to imagine you've got great stories that go along with it, whether it's one of your own stories or whether it's one of you working with a client or someone in your business.

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What's going through that?

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Going through those steps and we'll get to those steps here in just a minute.

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What's a success story that you have, though, that you're really proud of in terms of helping them through that?

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Yeah, I mean it's interesting when we are, say, fueled by some sort of belief like that, what happens is that we really aren't that creative, right, we really aren't that flexible, we can't really show up and be present because it's always about something else.

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You know, there's always this other thing running in the background.

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And so what's been really cool for me is to get to work with some performers who have felt really stalled in their career, right.

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So they're a musician, they've got albums out and it's been wonderful, but they haven't really loved it, they haven't really been passionate about it.

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And they come to me and they just say like hey, everybody else thinks I'm a big deal, but I don't and I'm not happy and I'm not content, I'm lonely and giving them permission and I always talk about it.

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It's like if you think about you know a space shuttle and they have the rocket boosters.

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You know a space shuttle and they have the rocket boosters, but they have to drop them off at some point.

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You know they don't carry them with them the whole time.

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When they drop that off, the next thing is like pure gold.

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You know, the next album they put out, they're like this is amazing, I wonder what happened and it's like well, I actually just gave myself the freedom to just show up as I am, instead of having to prove something to somebody.

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I love that when I think about that and just in terms of going through it as well.

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Letting those things go it's so hard to do.

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They sit around forever.

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Like each of the things that you see on my bookshelf, they've got a story associated with them, but there's probably a little bit of baggage to that story.

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That kind of lingers with it as well.

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That has its way to work its way into my mind.

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So you have spent a life in reading your book talking about how you always wanted to be a therapist.

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You dressed like a therapist in terms of growing up, and now you are a therapist.

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So you have this presentation that you do.

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That's the seven lessons from therapy for leaders Realizing we don't have all the time to go through that.

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We could talk about hours on that.

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Don't have all the time to go through that.

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We could talk about ours on that.

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Share with me one of those lessons that I think leaders who are listening in can really learn from and find value in.

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Yeah, I mean, I think probably the one that I like to start with that a lot of people really resonate with is just the importance of relationships and knowing how to do relationships, and most leaders would say to me well, I know how to do relationships, jason.

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How do you think I became a leader?

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And I'd say, sure, yeah, you know how to do some.

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But there's some things that leaders struggle uniquely with in terms of relationships, and so one of those that I talk to people about is over-functioning.

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A lot of leaders and this is going to come as a real shock to everybody, right but a lot of leaders over-function in relationships going to come as a real shock to everybody, right, but a lot of leaders over-function in relationships, and so what that looks like is leaders are good at giving, bad at receiving, right, and so they say I'm going to give, give, give and kind of.

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The trick behind that is that allows them to control the outcome, right, and so if I give and give and give, then I never have to risk being rejected, I never have to risk someone not showing up for me.

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But what happens is a lot of leaders I work with end up then being surrounded by takers and they say I really don't like that and at the end of the day, that leads to resentment and bitterness, and so they don't like the people that are takers, but they've trained them to be that way, and so sometimes what leaders have to learn how to do is actually to receive someone else's gift of time or love or respect or whatever that thing is, but because, again, they don't do that naturally and that looks a lot like surrendering control.

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Oh wow, absolutely.

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I mean, I've had this conversation actually just recently with my wife when we talked about when we're given a compliment as a leader.

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Why is it that we tend to deflect that or overfunction like, oh yeah, that's not something there, to your point.

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I had never thought about that way in terms of giving up some control as a response there, in terms of what exists or receiving of a gift, whatever that is.

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So I could understand.

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I could probably see myself in one of these overfunctioning categories and how it ends up happening.

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So I mean, I love, I love to make it weird for people when they compliment me.

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I like to just make it as awkward as possible.

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So the person walks away and goes man, why did I do that?

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That's kind of my knee jerk is like.

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Well, how do I make this person uncomfortable for doing something nice?

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For doing something nice, right, yeah, right yeah, and they're like why is this so awkward and it.

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But I think again, it's like when we're in that leadership role, um, we, we get so used to kind of like, well, I'm, I'm going to control the outcome.

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That it's really hard to to take that in, even when it's genuine, but we lose something if we don't exactly right, yeah, and then we start to make stuff up as leaders, we're being manipulated or something else to get something.

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I can imagine there's so many stories that dive down in there.

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Let's go and dive a little bit deeper in terms of what you've done to live their dreams and generate greater revenue.

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Huge mission.

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I mean that's something that's bold.

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There's something out there for you and I know there are a lot of things that impact you.

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Again, going through some of your stories in your book, but one of the things that's been very important for you is your faith.

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How has your faith been or shown up in your business, in your, your leadership, in your coaching as well?

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And maybe just as a side because you have it in your book is tell me about Isaiah 6, 8 and what that means to you.

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Yeah, I mean, I think for me my faith has been something I wrestled with initially, that that was a thing that was supposed to be good for me.

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That didn't feel that way, and so I wrestled with it.

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And then, you know, I kind of came to a place where, again, it's consistent with the theme right, like I accepted that I received it and that had been something I fought.

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And so when I did that, I just recognized like a lot of this is bigger than me, and so the really great thing about that is I don't actually have to stress so much about things because it's not up to me in the first place.

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And so, you know, along with Isaiah is like I just need to show up, right.

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I just need to be here and just say, hey, send me, like I'm going to go do the things, and I just need to be a steward, right.

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And so that's always, you know, kind of my prayer every day before I work with somebody is like, just help me be a steward of the thing I'm supposed to be a steward for, and then you do the rest.

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And so for me and I know it's not for everybody, but for me my faith has just been that North Star that I kind of keep coming back to, and it just allows me to really be more present in the moment and release a lot of that other stuff.

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Hey listeners, I want to take a quick moment to share something special with you.

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Many of the topics and discussions we have on this podcast are areas where I provide coaching and consulting services for individuals and organizations.

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If you've been inspired by our conversation and are seeking a catalyst for change in your own life or within your team, I invite you to visit coachjohngallaghercom.

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Forward slash free call to sign up for a free coaching call with me.

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00:16:16.432 --> 00:16:19.172
Okay, let's get back to the show.

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Yeah, I would imagine you can find each one of those, each find your faith in each one of those lessons.

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Again, going back to over your faith in each one of those lessons, again going back to overfunctioning, is one of those lessons that we have to learn, not just from therapy.

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But grace is something that, as leaders, we're not really good at accepting.

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Now, again, whether that's as leaders or as Christians, oftentimes as Christians, we're not good at accepting grace that's been given to us, the gift that's been given us on the journey John 3, 16, and that we wouldn't be worthy of that grace.

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So I can see how that can be problematic as well on the journey.

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Well, and we're always.

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I tell people like we're.

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You know, there's a lot of things that they're this or that, and we're given one but not the other, or we're good at one but not the other.

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And so one of those things is, I always say people, we have two hands, one's for grace and one is for truth, and some of us are really good at one and not the other, and vice versa.

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And so leaders, they tend to be really heavy on truth, not on grace, right.

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So they're really good at beating themselves up and pushing too hard and doing all this judging thing and not great on grace.

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But other people I talked to, I'm like you're a little heavy on grace, you need some truth, right, because sometimes we're tempted to kind of wash over things a little too easily and then we say, yeah, but what about that whole truth thing?

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So I think for us it's a balancing act of like how do I have grace and also how do I have truth?

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Excellent.

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You talk a lot about leadership and hold the holistic aspect of leadership as well.

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You've also had a physical transformation that you went through.

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How has that impacted you and your leadership style as well?

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Yeah, I mean, I think it's hard to lead other people if you can't lead yourself Right.

00:17:58.589 --> 00:18:06.395
And and so if you, if you come to somebody else and you say like I want to teach you to be healthy and you're you don't appear to be healthy, that's a tough sell.

00:18:06.395 --> 00:18:15.898
And so for me, it's really been in the interest of and I think it's just so simple is like the best, healthiest people make the best leaders.

00:18:15.898 --> 00:18:23.146
I don't know if I've ever worked with a leader who was revered as a great leader, who was a really unhealthy person, or at least they weren't a good leader for long.

00:18:23.146 --> 00:18:26.113
Right, because really, what leadership is?

00:18:26.113 --> 00:18:34.476
Is it just simply a projection of who we are on a team that empowers them to be better, like that is what leadership is in its essence, when we do it well.

00:18:34.476 --> 00:18:40.941
And so if we're not healthy, it's wrong to think that somehow some other message is going to be communicated.

00:18:42.084 --> 00:18:42.345
Absolutely.

00:18:42.345 --> 00:18:48.288
I think again, if we're not holistic in those ways, because they can see through it, we think we're hiding it, whatever that means.

00:18:48.288 --> 00:18:49.430
But they already know.

00:18:49.430 --> 00:18:56.673
The people that we lead already know, whether it's in our family, in our church or in our workplace, they already know, they see it.

00:18:56.673 --> 00:18:59.576
We think we can hide it, but they know what our blind spots are.

00:18:59.576 --> 00:19:00.497
There's no doubt about that.

00:19:01.436 --> 00:19:11.645
I get on this call with you and I'm screaming on the phone to my wife, and then we get on here and I say okay, well, I'm a great therapist and I'm a good listener and I'm great at relationships, let's talk.

00:19:11.645 --> 00:19:13.648
Do you believe me, right?

00:19:13.648 --> 00:19:14.769
I mean, that's challenging.

00:19:15.490 --> 00:19:16.372
Absolutely, yeah.

00:19:16.372 --> 00:19:34.816
And now you're getting into this word of hypocrisy that really drives a whole lot of leaders crazy, like, do as I say and not as I do, and that doesn't work for very long Again, whether it's in health, whether it's in relationships or in showing up for work on time, whatever those things are, those lessons have got to be there.

00:19:34.816 --> 00:19:37.010
Talk about your leadership style.

00:19:37.010 --> 00:19:42.077
Look to have the success that you've done to launch two podcasts successful businesses.

00:19:42.077 --> 00:19:45.375
What is your leadership style that makes you successful?

00:19:51.525 --> 00:19:54.596
Yeah, I mean I think I want to see people that I work with be successful at their dreams and to meet them where they're at.

00:19:54.596 --> 00:20:17.342
You know, for a long time I think I was in the recruiting and staffing business and so I managed hundreds of employees at one point and my management style then was kind of forced on me, right, it was to tell everybody who to be and how to be and when to show up, and I just saw that actually stunted people's growth, and so I really just made I think being a therapist has helped me to make a shift where yeah, there are rules and boundaries and stuff.

00:20:17.382 --> 00:20:24.550
But for the most part if we're working together it's because I want to see you get to the place you want to get to and I hope to do it together.

00:20:24.550 --> 00:20:27.928
And I recognize not everybody will do that with me.

00:20:27.928 --> 00:20:36.769
Some people are going to be short-lived in the company but they might contribute something big and so my leadership style is just to kind of say like where do you want to go and how do I help you get there?

00:20:36.769 --> 00:20:39.036
And along the way, how do we work together?

00:20:39.904 --> 00:20:49.420
Love that Setting expectations, understanding where the gap is, helping them close that gap, equipping them with what they need, inspiring, encouraging so many things.

00:20:49.420 --> 00:20:50.760
One of the things.

00:20:50.760 --> 00:20:55.363
Just a little fun side note too, of this story as well and how it may have shaped your leadership.

00:20:55.363 --> 00:21:05.458
When I read through the book and prior to the call, I chatted with you about a fun little story about how a car may have influenced us in our upbringing as well.

00:21:05.458 --> 00:21:11.714
Both of us have this similarity we both drove the Chevy Citation as our first vehicle.

00:21:11.714 --> 00:21:20.614
So how did a 1984, mine was a 1981, how did a 1984 Chevy Citation influence you and shape you as a person and leader?

00:21:21.515 --> 00:21:22.715
Well, I mean, it got in the way a lot.

00:21:22.715 --> 00:21:25.897
I'll tell you that it did not do me any favors at all.

00:21:25.897 --> 00:21:30.481
I think some days I would like if I was a guy that collected a car.

00:21:30.481 --> 00:21:35.744
It would be a fun car to have, just as a memory because and I wanted to tell everybody about.

00:21:36.005 --> 00:21:48.865
And so what happened is is, in that season all my friends got cars.

00:21:48.865 --> 00:21:49.808
They wanted to improve.

00:21:49.808 --> 00:21:57.154
You know, they just thought, like, how can I make this better with the stereo or wheels or any other thing a kid can come up with?

00:21:57.154 --> 00:21:59.817
And for me, I just felt, like, how do I get rid of this?

00:21:59.817 --> 00:22:02.682
I just, I just don't even want to do anything, I just want to dump it.

00:22:02.682 --> 00:22:05.505
You know how can I accidentally drive a car over a cliff?

00:22:05.505 --> 00:22:05.885
What?

00:22:05.885 --> 00:22:07.267
How do I do this, Right?

00:22:07.267 --> 00:22:08.628
Um, and it's so.

00:22:08.628 --> 00:22:13.086
It just taught me like sometimes we look at ourselves the same way, Like we, we don't.

00:22:13.086 --> 00:22:25.082
We don't want to actually like improve, we just want to start over, and and that is a big struggle and, and so I think when people want to start over, like that's a desperate place to be and we need to take time.

00:22:25.342 --> 00:22:35.949
Yeah, I just can't imagine, if we truly just sat down the leadership stories, good and bad that we could get out of the Chevy Citation.

00:22:35.949 --> 00:22:43.656
I worked at a gas station going through college and so I was able to pick up If somebody would come in and they were getting new tires.

00:22:43.656 --> 00:22:51.923
I'd look at the tires and look at the size and see if they'd fit on the citation, because they were always wearing out too fast so I'd trade them out and put some more used tires on there.

00:22:52.015 --> 00:23:06.930
I had the broomstick that hold the hatch hatchback open on the back because the springs were all those things we we welded the suspension in the back as well to make sure that the springs didn't fall through or go through the roof of that thing.

00:23:06.930 --> 00:23:11.781
I mean, it was just a car, but again, then, that's where grace comes back in as well.

00:23:11.781 --> 00:23:15.220
As it did get me through three years of college, it didn't get me through the last year.

00:23:15.220 --> 00:23:18.345
It finally quit on me and ended up in the junkyard.

00:23:18.345 --> 00:23:20.903
But the Chevy Citation.

00:23:21.434 --> 00:23:22.316
And it was a lesson.

00:23:22.316 --> 00:23:27.117
And I mean, I don't know about you, but I actually look at it much more fondly today than I did back then.

00:23:27.117 --> 00:23:33.641
You know, as I'm propping it up with the broomstick, I don't I don't think that's me looking at it fondly, but today I just go like man.

00:23:33.641 --> 00:23:34.760
I learned a lot from that.

00:23:35.260 --> 00:23:38.903
Sure, absolutely All right, bring it a full circle.

00:23:38.903 --> 00:23:42.884
I can't believe how fast our time is going here All the way back to kind of your book again.

00:23:42.884 --> 00:23:43.884
Get Past your Past.

00:23:43.884 --> 00:23:50.307
A lot in that book, a lot in what you're teaching leaders now in terms of the lessons that you learn from therapy.

00:23:50.307 --> 00:23:55.089
But when you think about this book test so it's been out for about a year now Folks have read it.

00:23:55.089 --> 00:24:01.272
When it came out it's still going to be sitting on their bookshelf and they're going to see that book, they're going to see the binding of that book sitting on the shelf.

00:24:13.095 --> 00:24:13.467
What do you want them to think?

00:24:13.467 --> 00:24:14.807
What do you want them to do when they see that binding after they've read your book?

00:24:14.807 --> 00:24:16.700
Yeah, I think, just remember that there's hope always and that it's up to them.

00:24:16.700 --> 00:24:34.424
You know, I think I wanted to have a very action oriented book because I think sometimes we can kind of take a passive approach to our life and we can say, you know, this is what's happened to me or this is what I've experienced, and so therefore, this is who I am and my hope is that for people it's the catalyst of just remembering, like, actually I get to decide and I can get past this if I want to.

00:24:34.424 --> 00:24:37.694
I'm going to have to do some stuff, right, but but it is possible.

00:24:37.694 --> 00:24:47.819
So my hope really for people is just that it gives them hope, and that's a lot of the feedback that I've gotten is hey, this gave me hope that it could be better, and I think that's enough.

00:24:47.819 --> 00:24:50.363
Like, if people get that out of the book, I'm thrilled.

00:24:51.736 --> 00:24:53.202
I don't want to underplay what you've done.

00:24:53.202 --> 00:25:00.315
I know sometimes as leaders, as coaches in our businesses, it feels like therapy on a daily basis.

00:25:00.315 --> 00:25:05.807
So I know what I hear from you, what I read in the book that you've chosen the right space to be in.

00:25:05.807 --> 00:25:10.625
How do you want folks to stay in touch with you or get in touch with you?

00:25:10.625 --> 00:25:12.241
You got a lot of followers on social media.

00:25:13.095 --> 00:25:13.998
Yeah, you can certainly.

00:25:13.998 --> 00:25:20.405
If you, if you hear this and you think I want to hear Jason every day, well, congratulations, you can for free, it's awesome.

00:25:20.405 --> 00:25:27.127
So you can look me up on Instagram, jason Vanvanruler, or my website, jasonvrcom.

00:25:27.127 --> 00:25:31.723
You can look into kind of the services I offer and programs and either way is great.

00:25:33.227 --> 00:25:34.256
Excellent, jason.

00:25:34.256 --> 00:25:37.705
I appreciate you being a guest on the Uncommon Leader podcast.

00:25:37.705 --> 00:25:41.726
I know folks are going to find value in many of the things that you talked about today.

00:25:41.726 --> 00:25:48.207
I want to give you the last word and it's a question that I always ask my first time guests as well, to finish it off, but I'm going to give you a billboard.

00:25:48.207 --> 00:25:55.116
You can put that billboard anywhere you want to, but what's the message you would want to put on that billboard and why would you put that message?

00:25:56.377 --> 00:26:01.564
Yeah, I love that question, Um, and because I've never had a billboard, so maybe I need to take one out.

00:26:01.564 --> 00:26:06.289
Uh, I think I would just say just say, you know, I'll tell you what.

00:26:06.289 --> 00:26:11.963
This is something I say to myself when I read things, when I attend conferences or go to places.

00:26:11.963 --> 00:26:15.218
But I just say, this could change my life if I let it.

00:26:15.218 --> 00:26:24.926
And so I think what I'd want to communicate to people is that at any point they can let something change their life, like they just get to make that decision right.

00:26:24.926 --> 00:26:32.605
They can say like I'm going to read this book and I'm going to let it change my life and do everything it says, or I'm going to listen to this person and I'm going to do exactly what they tell me to do.

00:26:32.605 --> 00:26:37.777
But I think I would just want to encourage people to say like you can change your life at any point if you want.

00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:41.061
So true, so much truth there.

00:26:41.061 --> 00:26:43.184
Folks, listen to what Jason got to say.

00:26:43.184 --> 00:26:53.273
I hope you get a chance even to go back and listen to some of the key points here, but, jason, I appreciate you taking time out of your day to invest with the listeners of the Uncommon Leader podcast.

00:26:53.273 --> 00:26:54.818
I wish you the best going forward.

00:26:55.642 --> 00:26:56.404
Thanks so much, John.

00:26:56.404 --> 00:26:57.779
It was such a good conversation.

00:26:57.779 --> 00:26:58.403
I had a great time.

00:27:01.576 --> 00:27:04.326
And that wraps up another episode of the Uncommon Leader podcast.

00:27:04.326 --> 00:27:05.497
Thanks for tuning in today.

00:27:05.497 --> 00:27:16.974
If you found value in this episode, I encourage you to share it with your friends, colleagues or anyone else who could benefit from the insights and inspiration we've shared.

00:27:16.974 --> 00:27:19.886
Also, if you have a moment, I'd greatly appreciate if you could leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform.

00:27:19.886 --> 00:27:27.461
Your feedback not only helps us to improve, but it also helps others discover the podcast and join our growing community of uncommon leaders.

00:27:27.461 --> 00:27:30.627
Until next time, go and grow champions.