Hope Realized: The Power of Enduring Hope and How We Can Make a Difference with James Belt

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey, Uncommon Leaders, welcome back. This is the Uncommon Leader podcast and I'm your host, John Gallagher, Today. Get ready for yet another insightful episode, as I engage in a captivating conversation with James Belt, the author of the inspiring book Hope Realized and the owner and president of Belt Enterprises. In this interview, James takes us on an extraordinary journey, starting from his early influences by his grandfathers to embarking on his first missionary trip. Along the way, he uncovers a profound connection between poverty and hopelessness, leaving a lasting impact on his perspective. James also opens up about his personal experiences with anxiety and emphasized the importance of understanding your own stories, as well as recognizing the unique contributions we can make to help others. With a firm belief in the power of hope, he dispels the notion of hopelessness as nothing more than a lie. This conversation has been with valuable insights on leadership, the transformative power of hope and how each and every one of us can make a meaningful difference in the world. Let's get started. James Belt, welcome to the Uncommon Leader Podcast. It's great to have you as a guest on the show. Man, how are you doing?

Speaker 2: 1:09

Thanks, John. I'm really excited to be here. I'm doing great. It's awesome to be on.

Speaker 1: 1:13

No, I'm looking forward to our conversation today and learning a little bit more about you and the book you recently authored as well. But I'll start you off, just like I start off all my first-time guests, and that's with a question, really, that goes back in time a little bit. Tell me a little bit of a story from your childhood that still impacts who you are today as a person or as a leader.

Speaker 2: 1:31

Yeah, that's a great question and it's funny. I had thought about that a lot as I was writing a book, interestingly enough, and the story that really comes to mind for me is related to my grandfathers. I had great parents growing up that believed in me and reinforced a lot of good stuff in me. But in particular I remember I had my one grandfather that was kind of like the sports guy. He grew up a gym teacher, actually played soccer professionally for a little while and he always told me you can do anything you want, basically like I believe in you, you can do anything you want. And he was that side of the puzzle for me. And then I had another grandfather that was actually a Methodist pastor and I can remember him speaking truth into my life in kind of a different way and in particular I remember receiving letters from him throughout my life. So from the time I don't know, maybe I was 10, at least that's how I remember it I think earlier than 10, that recollection doesn't come to mind, but he would write these letters to me and some were just kind of hey, just because letters. I believe in you, god has a plan for your life, all of that. Some were in reaction to my less than intelligent decisions, so like, but always positive, reinforcing at the same time. It's kind of challenging, and these were I almost like to call them drops of hope in my life, when I would find myself kind of going off to the edge, wondering kind of what my life was about. I don't know that I saw it that way in the moment, but I can remember even now, gosh, 30 years later, these letters that I received and how much they meant to me and how much those words it wasn't the letter itself per se, but it was the words that were spoken and that stayed with me throughout my life moving forward, and that's been a huge influence in my life. So that's the one that comes to mind for me when you ask that question.

Speaker 1: 3:23

James, I love you sharing that, and certainly grandfathers, I mean they have that way that second generation of having a big impact on us. But I love that drops of hope, those letters, and I can imagine your curiosity when you may have received one in the mail or slid under the door of your house like what's this one gonna be about? Is this feedback? Is this one of those builder uppers again, or a little bit of both. So thanks for sharing that. I wish I probably did more writing. I like to write cards, but I think those, certainly those handwritten letters, can be really powerful as well with regards to memory, and that's a great memory to have. So, and probably you know you saw all that writing and things like that Fed into really the conversation that we'll talk about mostly today, and that's a book that you offered. You've got it over your right shoulder there, hope Realized. So, prior to kind of jumping into the content of the book, tell me a little bit about the background, how it led you to Hope Realized and, frankly, while we won't have it on video, I'll have a picture of it when I do the artwork. Tell me about the picture on the front of the book as well the mountains there.

Speaker 2: 4:22

Yeah, yeah. So how we got there is interesting. So, and I grew up, as I said, a great family, grew up a child of a business owner and now actually run that business myself, fortunate enough to do that. But through that process learned a lot about about a lot of things. But jumping kind of ahead, we as a family, in connection with our church, decided to start traveling to Nicaragua. Our church decided to do a mission trip. It was a pretty young church and they got connected to an organization that was working in Nicaragua and we took a trip down to an orphanage down there, and I didn't actually go on that first trip. My parents went and my sister I had one sister at the time went and they had a great time at this orphanage point. Today I'm a stud and I kind of imagined myself as the guy that would just send a check to the missionary. I never grew up wanting to be a missionary. I kind of following in the business center footsteps there, and when they came back, though, they said, hey, james, you need to go. So took them about 12 months where they cooks me into it, and the next summer I went on a trip and started to fall in love with the country and then, through that process, my parents actually decided to adopt a 15 year old girl from Nicaragua Emily and my other sister now, who just turned 30, actually about a week ago, and she my parents had mentioned. Hey, we wanna do this, and my sister and I were all for it. And through that process, I had the chance to spend a little more time there, after taking some trips down there, and I started to ask questions. I started to wonder okay, why does poverty exist? Why are people in this situation? As I started to develop relationships and poverty went from just being an idea, a concept the Catholic Charities commercials, you see, if you remember them, to Maria Jose, josue, people that had names, and that was my now my image of poverty, and what I realized was those people are just as capable as I am, they have the same gifts, god has put the same potential within them, and yet they seem to be limited by something. And so I started to ask questions. I had the chance to travel down there and travel in some different areas I talked about a little bit in the book out to a coffee farm and things of that sort, and as I dug in deeper I started to realize that it really was related to hope, that the issue was real hope and a lack thereof, so a sense of hopelessness, both practically and spiritually, and I eventually moved there and again we can get into that story if you'd like a little bit but eventually ended up living there, and that was really reinforced over the three years I lived there. That was in addressing these two areas of hope that we could make a real difference and create real lasting change. And so, as I came back from Nicaragua, I just realized in 2015, hey, I should start writing this down, and whether that's just for, maybe, the kids I'll have one day I have two kids now, but I didn't have any children at the time or for my family or whoever might wanna read it. But as I started to write it down and it took me a while I realized maybe this is something I'd wanna share with others. And so that is kinda how we got to now, a few years later, having a book. I hope realized and you had asked about the cover of the book that's actually a volcano from.

Speaker 1: 7:40

Nicaragua.

Speaker 2: 7:41

Yeah, that's called.

Speaker 1: 7:42

In the book you talked about that. Yeah, yeah, La.

Speaker 2: 7:44

Concepción. And yeah, one of the images I like to think of with hope is actually that it's like a volcano, that it's the potential within that within. Hope is much like the potential within a volcano and oftentimes when you just look at it from a distance or I grew up knowing about volcanoes, making them in science class out of baking soda and vinegar I had no idea until one day I got to actually visit a volcano in Nicaragua and look into the crater and I'm like, wow, this is way more powerful than I realized. And I think hope can be the same way. We sometimes minimize the power of hope or like hope's a great thing, but until we really come face to face with it and start to understand the potential it has and the ability to create change, we can think of it as something smaller than it actually is, as much more power than we realize.

Speaker 1: 8:31

James, I'm taking those, and there's so many good things that you said there.

Speaker 2: 8:34

And.

Speaker 1: 8:34

I think you answered probably what my next question was gonna be without even knowing that, because one of the things you said in there is one of the names of one of the chapters was hope is a noun. Now I hear that hope is a volcano. Okay, so maybe tell me a little bit more about how kind of you came that resolution, because when folks look it up in the dictionary you talk about in the book it's not really a noun this there. But tell me about that difference for you.

Speaker 2: 8:56

Yeah, so actually it's interesting. It's something that I had kicked around in my mind a while ago and I was actually listening to a podcast interview and the person they interviewed and I apologize I don't remember who it was, but they were mentioning this idea that hope is a noun and when we think of hope, we often think of hooping, we think of the hey, I hope my team will win, I hope I'll pass the test, the things that we come with, and that's the verb form of hope and that's that hooping, and it's a bit wishy-washy at times. We don't know if it's going to happen. I was an Orioles fan. I've been an Orioles fan growing up and there was oftentimes I hopes were dashed, although this year they were a little better. But you know, we get this idea that it's hoping and it's kind of like well, maybe it'll happen, maybe it won't. But when I talk about hope in this sense, this real life changing hope, I call it all in hope. It's this hope that's a noun, it's foundational, it's based on something real. I talk about spiritual hope. For me that comes from my belief in Jesus and just this potential, god-given potential that we have, the spiritual hope that's put within us, that we can realize. And it's finding that identity in that real hope and that spiritual hope, in that God-given potential that we were created on purpose and for a purpose, that it becomes a noun. That hope becomes a noun and we realize, no, it's not just this wishy, it doesn't have to be this wishy-washy thing. It can be something foundational and concrete that can allow us to move through things that seem like they would stop us, to break through the wall of hopelessness that maybe we see or we even have inside ourselves sometimes. And then there's a practical element to it too. Obviously it's the hey, I have the potential, but we need the resources to realize that potential, and so that's part of that noun as well, in a sense. But that's kind of where it comes from.

Speaker 1: 10:43

And that's where the volcano idea comes from. And listening to your story too, all the way through where you talked about you know the first thing you would do is that's okay, I'll write a check and make a donation each year or two. I lived in Nicaragua for three years and now. I have an adopted sister as well who's from Nicaragua, and you know my guess. I'm going to get to a little bit in terms of your business and your enterprise as well, how it manifests itself there. But there was a line in your book that says you know, people don't plan long term because if we do, we'll just get our hearts broken and it's best not to hope. Now that sounds a little bit like that word that you just used, that it's the absence of hope or hopelessness, and in your book you say hopelessness is a lie. Tell me more about that as well.

Speaker 2: 11:26

Yeah. So as I thought about hopelessness and really it was through the writing process that I came up with that term hopelessness is a lie, because I knew there was hopelessness. You know, I lived in the midst of. You know what many would describe as hopelessness, and when I say hopelessness in that form, it's the easy to see kind of hopelessness. You know poverty, where people are making less than $2 a day to living in shacks made from materials they just, you know, can find the squatters. You know they don't know where their next meal is coming from. You know, education is a huge issue. Unemployment is a huge issue, all of the things that we can easily identify as hopelessness. But obviously we have hopelessness too, that we carry right Things that we were. Like man, my dreams can't come true. It's, it's not possible. Or you know, I wasn't really made for anything and I was made for less than, and so as I struggled with this, it was like I know hopelessness is there, but I don't think hopelessness ultimately has to play a permanent role in our life, if that makes sense. So I don't think anybody is truly hopeless or innately hopeless. I believe that we can find ourselves trapped in hopelessness and that's really where I came up with this, with this thought that hopelessness is a lie. It's that. it's that hopelessness itself doesn't have power until we give it power in an almost in an essence, whether it's us personally or somebody else, and when we buy into that lie it holds us captive. But when we break through that lie we can move beyond it and we can realize that that potential and so that's where it really comes from is this belief that no one is truly hopeless and that it's a lie that holds us captive. It's like you know, the thought just came to my mind. Sometimes people describe darkness versus light, and that darkness is really just the absence of light. Right, that without light, darkness doesn't really exist, and so it's kind of like that without hopelessness doesn't, doesn't really exist.

Speaker 1: 13:17

Hey, listeners, I want to take a quick moment to share something special with you. Many of the topics and discussions we have on this podcast are areas where I provide coaching and consulting services for individuals and organizations. If you've been inspired by our conversation and are seeking a catalyst for change in your own life or within your team, I invite you to visit coachjohngallaghercom forward slash free call to sign up for a free coaching call with me. It's an opportunity for us to connect, discuss your unique challenges and explore how coaching or consulting can benefit you and your team. Okay, let's get back to the show. Yeah, I mean, the lack of hope is there and you touch on your faith obviously is a big part of who you are as a leader you mentioned in the book I reused Hebrews 11.1 as one of your statements. Both faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. And so for you personally, james, you started to go along this path. Where does hopelessness tend to come into your life, and how do you overcome that hopelessness, or that, maybe that lack of faith?

Speaker 2: 14:27

Yeah, so it's been at different moments throughout my life. You know, when I was younger, there was a sense of hopelessness about my potential, even with writing which is ironic because I read a book and I speak about that a little bit how I had an investment from my grandmother, who who invested in me and tutored me. But I kind of, at certain points in my life, I've seen myself as really not created for for, you know, a great life, in whatever way you think of great. You know I could, could, surmise certain things from that, but I didn't see the potential inside myself, and so I can find myself trapped in that. I had a journey with anxiety, you know, I still occasionally struggle with it today even and there were moments in that journey where I found myself feeling kind of hopeless, you know, like goodness, you know, am I going to be able to move past this and not have it be, you know, a huge dominating factor in my life? And so I found myself in those moments. I didn't get married till I was in my 30s, which isn't, you know, late by any means but I thought I was getting married in my early 20s and so there was, like this 10 year gap where I was like what's going on here? And so I found myself in these various moments. Thankfully, I've never, you know, had to experience poverty personally and to deal with that, but I have, in the spiritual way, in some senses, and in the emotional way, and that's where I found myself and it's easy to get trapped there and say, no, this is just how it is, and I can see myself, you know, especially with anxiety, kind of saying like no, you know, I better just stop, because anything that's going to put pressure on me is going to make me anxious and I better just kind of sit, you know, and live this life for however long I'm going to live it, and not deal with that. And I think that hope has allowed me my, my understanding of hope and my potential and my belief that I was created on purpose and for a purpose, by a God who loves me, to fight, you know, beyond that and to grab confidence in this hope that really is external, is outside myself, and to not find myself trapped there.

Speaker 1: 16:25

So Interesting, james. So you know, your book, while it focuses its energy on your story and Nicaragua, it focuses the energy on poverty. You know, what you just described really is is and we think about the uncommon leader podcast, the listeners that are there that we all suffer from this lack of confidence, this lack of hope, this, you know, things like anxiety or relationship challenges that we have, and so, for lack of a better word, what are a couple of tips that you could give them to to help to overcome that? What are some ways you've been able to overcome it?

Speaker 2: 17:00

Yeah, I think a couple of things I think of personally is it's interesting. I'll say a couple pieces on it. One to replace lies with truth. So we talked about the lies of hopelessness, right, and so it's identifying Okay, what are the lies I'm believing, what is it that I'm allowing to create this hopelessness in myself? And then identifying truths that that fight against that, that say no, that's not the truest thing about me. Yes, that is true, you know I deal with anxiety, but that doesn't have to define me. You know, it doesn't have to be the truest thing about me. You know, in my case, that might be like I said hey, I have God-given potential and uncreated on purpose and for purpose by a guy who loves me. He didn't create me to to be mired in my, you know, living in my anxiety without Any hope, and so that's a big piece of it. And one thing I tell People, even in trying to think about how you can make a difference in others lives, is to get curious about your own story and to look Back and say where is hope played a role in my life? Many times, you know, we get stuck in the moment and we forget about the moments prior, that we overcame something, or that we had someone speak into our life or that God came through for us wherever you know you come from, from all that perspective. But we Forget that. And I think getting curious about my own story and then even maybe other people's story where you've seen hope play a role, and say, no, look, this person was, this person was you know, I think of Victor Frankel and man search for meaning and know his book about being in a Concentration camp and finding hope and you can find hope in those stories as well and see, goodness, this person seemed to be completely forgotten. And then you know there's a realization that no, he wasn't. And I think there's a lot of ways we can be curious about how hope is played a role in our lives and lives of others that can make a huge difference. And then getting clear on cable what, what is it that I can do? What you know, what is my God given potential and how can I exercise that and point myself in that direction instead of kind of Stuck in where I am? That's what. When I find myself really anxious now, Sometimes I'm like what am I doing? Why am I sitting here? I can't control all the things that are making me anxious, but I can control what I'm focusing on, and so that that's helpful too. Love that Replacing lies with truth.

Speaker 1: 19:11

So there's an awareness that's there to your point you start to feel something where you start to go down this path of feeling lack of hope and getting curious about your own story and, frankly, learning from other people's stories. I think you know that's why we do these podcasts, that's why we share, so that you know your story can help to inspire someone else who may be going through that and then ultimately thinking, hey, I can't sit in this chair, what do I need to go and do? What action do I need to take to go forward. So I appreciate you sharing that in terms of those, those ways that you deal with it, because it's not, it's not easy. Some people get stuck in it. Now. That's a perspective of us. That's a perspective of us as leaders. Outside of that, as leaders, we're, we're all pretty fortunate. I mean, if we're listening to this podcast, you're listening to it on a thousand dollar phone or watching it on your laptop, or you know You're, you're walking on a treadmill and a membership in a gym or whatever you're doing, we're all pretty fortunate. And those stories that you sharing your book as well, are those that really don't have the means to come through that. So, as leaders, as servants, as Us being. You know what we're really brought here to be, and that's to serve others. You know how can, how can we all play a role in Creating change and bringing hope to others, those who may not have it as much.

Speaker 2: 20:25

Yeah, that's a great question. That's a huge piece of why worth the book is really that as I came back, you know, I wasn't, as I said, I wasn't somebody that wanted to be a missionary. I didn't really see myself that way. You know, I saw myself Somebody that had one to be in business, and you can make a lot of difference doing that as well. That's what I really, a lot of what I do now. But but as I came back, I realized, no, I can make a difference, like we each have the potential to make a difference, and so One thing I talk about in the book is how do we kind of activate that within ourselves? And it starts with, actually, where I talked about how do we address that hopelessness within us. And it starts, in my opinion, with Taking a look at at, you know, why does poverty exist? So I say, get curious, so get a better understanding of why poverty exists. What do I believe about people in poverty? It doesn't have to be poverty, there's other issues, but whatever issue it is, get curious about that issue and say why does it exist? What do I believe about it? What do I believe about the people that are in poverty? You know, is there anything that might be holding me back? Do I really believe there's hope for them? That's a really important question to ask, because it's hard to bring hope to someone if you don't truly believe there's hope for them. And so getting curious about that is super important. Getting curious about your own story, like I said, and how hope has played a role is a big piece of it. And then I tell people think about what you bring to the table. So what is it that you have to offer? We all have something, and you know, I first started traveling to Nicaragua. We went to an orphanage and we hung out with kids and built relationships, and that was great, you know, it was an awesome time. But I was trying to understand okay, that's wonderful, but how do I use the business skills, the finance skills? I have to make a difference here. You know, as someone with that background, with an economics background a little bit as well, I looked around and I said there's got to be some way I can make a difference just beyond this. And so, just given my skillset, and so I was able to figure that out and work through that during my time in Nicaragua and use those skills, and so more than likely, you have a skill that could benefit somebody that you could bring to the table and offer to someone to bring you the practical hope you know, something that provides a real opportunity for someone is another way I like to say it or spiritual hope, something that helps to reframe their identity around the fact that they do have potential, that they are created for something more. And so, in one of those two ways, you more than likely bring something to the table. I would say everyone does truly bring something to the table that can make a difference for someone else. And then I like to say, get connected. More than likely there's someone else that brings another piece of the puzzle to the table, right. And so getting connected and finding a way to work together, finding an organization within your community or the community that you wanna have an impact on, and saying, hey, I have this, you know I can bring this to the table. You know, maybe I have something to offer to partner with you, and that's been really helpful in Nicaragua. Even with Nicaragua works the organization I work with, where we've been able to partner and work with others that have another piece of the puzzle and we're able to bring what we bring and it works beautifully together. And then the last thing I say is just take a step. You know, we can think about a lot of things, but eventually we have to take a step. And that step could be a lot of things, some of them. It could be some of those first steps that I talked about. It could be just going out and serving one day somewhere you know. You know whether it's somewhere in your community or somewhere else. It might be reading a book, like you know, hope Realized. Or you know there's another great book, when helping hurts us. A million of them if you're interested in poverty. But take a step in that direction. And what I found is, as you take a step, the next step will become more clear. And you know, I said I first started by being coaxed into going on a mission trip and then I ended up living in a caragua. Obviously, there was a lot in between, right, but there were these little progressive steps that eventually led me there, to this moment that I felt like God put on my heart hey, you're supposed to live here for three years. And it was in taking those steps that got me there. And sometimes we're like I want to be here and we get caught up maybe and that's good, it's good to have a vision, that's important. But don't get caught up in the like I have to be there, like in five minutes it might be. There's a progressive step in between that you have to get to to get there. So get curious, think about what you bring to the table, get connected and then take a step.

Speaker 1: 24:40

Love that take a step and, like you said, that step doesn't always have to be. We have to make this decision to go on a missionary trip or to live in another country. That's not how it is. It's find something that you're gifted at that you can really add back and give back, and it can be something that's really simple. James, I again appreciate you sharing that as to how we can get engaged. And so now give me a little bit of the fulfillment. So tell me a story that's impacted you or you've taken that step in. Maybe it's when you were living in Nicaragua, when you first went there, that impacted you and helped you feel fulfilled in the mission that you're in.

Speaker 2: 25:16

Yeah, there's a lot of them, but the one that comes to mind in particular is the Nica bike shop. So we have a bike shop that was launched in Nicaragua and it sells used bikes, actually from the United States. They're collected in the United States and then sent down there and they refurbish them. They actually pay for them and some of that money actually goes back into serving people in Nicaragua. They pay a small fee for them and then they refurbish and sell them. But that came out of a small vocational training program that was happening in Nicaragua and at one point we realized this could really make a difference for people. And there was a guy that actually is now on staff of NicaWorks, josh, and a couple other guys, and we said, hey, we would love for you to be a part of this. And we started to dream and they put together a business plan for this bike shop and we started to work on that and in 2014, actually, the bike shop officially launched as a business and what's been neat to see is even I talk about Josh, and Josh is an amazing guy, but to see even his growth and his belief in what is possible and the shop and how it's impacted lives there, that this little shop that was born out of a small vocational training program in a little community, that then some guys that you would easily say they could just kind of think, well, opening a bike shop in Minagua is it really going to make it? There's 50% plus unemployment in many places in Nicaragua. Is this really going to make any sense? But they bought into it and they had hope and that hope was reinforced and they gained hope and believed in their potential and took advantage of that resource, that practical hope that was given to them, and now, 10 years later, it's one of the largest bike retail shops in Nicaragua and there's a second bike shop now in Bluefield, which is on the Atlantic coast of Nicaragua and just making a difference, not just because it's providing jobs and income for people, but actually they're able to then relationally invest in the people that work with them and give that way too, and so that's something that's been really neat to watch develop and grow and fight through some really challenging moments and see them not give up and say no, I believe there's hope, even though sometimes things around me don't say that right that I believe there's real hope and what's been needed is that's then parlayed into other opportunities that Josh and Nicarawaks has been a part of, where we're starting a sweet corn operation that's kind of going to do the same thing and has been doing it and is going to launch doing now a new, bigger project to provide the same kind of opportunity for people and maybe even on a larger scale and just to see one. It start as this little bike shop, this little bike vocational training program, into a bike shop and now growing and then even kind of almost birthing other things. It's just really really cool and inspiring and gets me excited about being involved there as well, moving forward.

Speaker 1: 28:22

One step. The volcano is going to start to erupt right. It continues to grow and grow Absolutely Hope realized. As you said in the book James, I can't believe how fast our time is going, gone in our conversation today. Tell folks how they can stay in touch with you. They're going to want to know more about you.

Speaker 2: 28:39

Yeah, so you can go to my website, jameshbeltcom, and on that website actually there's a link there and if you're listening now, you can click on that link and it says to get a free guide and it'll give you and I talked about getting curious, I'm thinking about what you bring to the table so that'll actually give you five steps, five foundational steps you can take to make a difference in someone's life, and you can download that free guide and that'll help you to learn how to make some steps. You can also get connected and pick up my book, hope Realized, on the website. So it's on Amazon, really anywhere you find books online and you can get connected there. And I'd love to connect with you and think about how to help you make a difference and bring hope to others.

Speaker 1: 29:20

Excellent, thank you, james. Well, I'm going to finish you up, just like I finished all my first time guests, and that's. I'm going to give you a billboard. I'm going to give you the last word here. You can put that billboard anywhere you want to, including in Nicaragua, if you want to. I've understood a thousand people. Awesome, go buy it wherever you want to put it, but I'm giving you full reign of what you want to put on that billboard. Tell me what you're going to put on it and why.

Speaker 2: 29:40

Yeah, so I think what I would say is actually the last line of my book. So here's a little preview is change is possible, hope wins the day, and it's this belief that change can happen. You know, sometimes we especially right now there's so much turmoil in the world and we kind of think, goodness is, is everything hopeless? But I just don't believe that and I continue to see change in the midst of hopelessness, and so it reminds me that change is possible and that hope ultimately wins the day, whether that's today, tomorrow or in eternity. That hope wins the day and that that when we grab onto that and believe in that real, foundational hope, hope that, you know, anything is possible in our lives personally and in the way that we can be used to make a difference in others. So yeah, that was that's what I'd say Change is possible and hope wins the day.

Speaker 1: 30:28

Excellent, James. Thank you very much. You've been a gift to the listeners of the Uncommon Leader Podcast today. I wish you the best in the future. If there's anything that can do for you, let me know Okay.

Speaker 2: 30:37

Thanks, john, this has been fun.

Speaker 1: 30:42

And that wraps up another episode of the Uncommon Leader Podcast. Thanks for tuning in today. If you found value in this episode, I encourage you to share it with your friends, colleagues or anyone else who could benefit from the insights and inspiration we've shared. Also, if you have a moment, I'd greatly appreciate if you could leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback not only helps us to improve, but it also helps others discover the podcast and join our growing community of Uncommon Leaders. Until next time, go with Grow Champions.