WEBVTT
00:00:00.140 --> 00:00:06.870
Whether it's an uncommon leader in business or an uncommon leader in the military, it's a core concept nonetheless and that's lead by example.
00:00:06.870 --> 00:00:16.629
So one of the ways that you can come to take your faith to work is by showing people you're a Christian, without ever mentioning the word Christ or Christian or church.
00:00:16.629 --> 00:00:18.140
People will know it.
00:00:18.140 --> 00:00:21.530
There's a great hymn out there from the old days called but they will know us by our love.
00:00:21.530 --> 00:00:24.245
Right, and people will know you by your love.
00:00:24.245 --> 00:00:29.164
I like to say in our congregation people can see the light of Christ in your heart if you just let it shine.
00:00:37.100 --> 00:00:38.466
Hey, uncommon Leaders, welcome back.
00:00:38.466 --> 00:00:41.750
This is the Uncommon Leader Podcast and I'm your host, john Gallagher.
00:00:41.750 --> 00:00:44.088
I've got a great guest for you today.
00:00:44.088 --> 00:00:45.945
Let me kind of go down through this list for a minute.
00:00:45.945 --> 00:00:48.935
So I've had pastors on the podcast before.
00:00:48.935 --> 00:00:52.206
I've had military officers on the podcast before.
00:00:52.206 --> 00:00:55.197
I've had business owners on the podcast before.
00:00:55.197 --> 00:00:58.085
I've had best-selling authors on the podcast before.
00:00:58.085 --> 00:01:04.807
I don't know if I've had anyone on the podcast that can claim all four of those titles, if you will.
00:01:04.807 --> 00:01:11.415
But I'm pretty excited today to introduce you all to Rich Sanders, the author of the Christian Capitalist.
00:01:11.415 --> 00:01:13.444
Rich, welcome to the Uncommon Leader podcast.
00:01:13.444 --> 00:01:14.147
How are you doing today?
00:01:14.668 --> 00:01:15.430
I'm doing great, John.
00:01:15.430 --> 00:01:18.230
Thank you so much for having me on the show today.
00:01:18.230 --> 00:01:19.284
I'm delighted to be here.
00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:27.114
Well, I know we're going to get a chance to talk about your book and that's really what it's all about, and I'm excited to dive into that and learn a little bit more about you.
00:01:27.114 --> 00:01:37.570
But before I do that, I'll give you the same first question I give all my first-time guests, and that's to tell me a story from your childhood that still impacts who you are today, as a leader or as a person.
00:01:39.013 --> 00:01:39.653
John, thank you.
00:01:39.653 --> 00:01:41.867
First of all, thank you for inviting me.
00:01:41.867 --> 00:01:44.727
I'm so glad to be here and I appreciate you asking that question.
00:01:44.727 --> 00:01:54.251
I just had a phone call earlier this morning where a young woman who's a sophomore in college was talking about how we are, who we meet, and we are the sum of our experiences.
00:01:54.251 --> 00:02:15.842
So I think that's a great kick career officer in the Air Force and the first place that our most memorable place that we lived in the time that he was in the Air Force, which started before I was born, was in Italy.
00:02:16.323 --> 00:02:36.348
So one of the ways that when we were stationed in Italy and I was a young guy, 10 years old, one of the ways that we used to kind of occupy our time was playground, you know, football, baseball, basketball, whatever, just like normal kids, even back in the United States only we're at a military base in Southern Italy on the heel of the boot.
00:02:36.348 --> 00:02:45.206
But the memory that sticks with me, and part of what I try and bring to the table as a pastor, is how much fun it was when we would have Bible study.
00:02:45.206 --> 00:02:51.193
So this is an airman who's maybe 19, 20 years old and he was leading fifth grade Bible study.
00:02:51.193 --> 00:02:53.288
So it was 10 boys and him.
00:02:53.348 --> 00:03:04.026
We would go to the church, we would have a conversation about whatever it was, then we'd go play football, and so I hang on to that, because so many people think of church as overbearing.
00:03:04.026 --> 00:03:08.366
It's stained glass, it's organs, it's very formal, it's pent up.
00:03:08.366 --> 00:03:11.461
We've been to churches before where when the kids sing they don't even clap.
00:03:11.461 --> 00:03:21.460
But what stuck with me from that is that church can be fun and talking about Jesus kind of fits into what you already do, just like I would normally play football seven days a week.
00:03:21.460 --> 00:03:31.014
But on that day it was right after we had studied scripture, and it stuck with me that you can have fun and integrate the gospel into your everyday life.
00:03:31.895 --> 00:03:34.287
Love that and I hadn't thought about that in a long time.
00:03:35.441 --> 00:03:43.508
You know and I know that you told me this before we hit the record button today that you're out in Phoenix, arizona or in Tempe, arizona to watch your son play baseball.
00:03:43.508 --> 00:03:47.276
So sports have stayed an important part, uh, and clearly you're pretty good at it.
00:03:47.276 --> 00:03:49.582
So that's, that's something from an athletic standpoint.
00:03:49.582 --> 00:03:51.750
If you've got a son that plays for the Cubs, I think that's awesome.
00:03:51.750 --> 00:03:57.501
Uh, I I haven't had a lot to cheer about in baseball for the last 30 years, being a pirate fan growing up.
00:03:57.501 --> 00:04:04.508
So that just is what it is with the Cubs and they're they take their baseball really serious out there in Arizona, even for spring training.
00:04:05.169 --> 00:04:06.372
Just a real quick note about that.
00:04:06.372 --> 00:04:08.433
That's right, we are in Phoenix for spring training.
00:04:08.433 --> 00:04:13.653
Our son is in the minor leagues with the Cubs, but the Pirates have somebody to cheer for.
00:04:13.653 --> 00:04:27.269
Paul Skeens went to LSU and our son went to South Carolina, so we have been in games where Skeens has pitched before and he's gotten a great start in the pros with the Pirates Rookie of the year and starting the All-Star game.
00:04:27.269 --> 00:04:28.692
There's hope for Pirates fans.
00:04:29.112 --> 00:04:30.855
I love that we always have that hope.
00:04:30.855 --> 00:04:37.358
Then eventually they trade him away to the Yankees or to the Cubs or to the Dodgers, whoever it is.
00:04:37.358 --> 00:04:40.449
We tend to be that great farm system that lives year-round.
00:04:40.449 --> 00:04:43.384
Either way, skeens has been phenomenal and fun to watch.
00:04:43.384 --> 00:04:44.045
You're exactly right.
00:04:44.045 --> 00:04:53.702
He's given us Pirate fans something to talk about, and I think he's going to be even better this year, as long as he can stay healthy.
00:04:53.702 --> 00:04:55.187
So we could talk baseball probably all the way through.
00:04:55.208 --> 00:04:59.141
But we're here to talk about your book, the Christian Capitalist, the Gospel of Hard Work and Generous Giving.
00:04:59.141 --> 00:05:15.653
So as I kind of read through and not the entire book, but a significant part of the book there was a picture that came to my mind and it talked about the tension between gaining wealth and our giving health as individuals, as leaders, and not just in the business owner side.
00:05:15.653 --> 00:05:27.151
But there was a word that you used in the back of the book that I just want to jump into right off the bat, and that's philanthropic capitalism, and I don't know if you made that word up or whatever it is, but what is philanthropic capitalism?
00:05:27.711 --> 00:05:29.254
Yeah, that's a great question.
00:05:29.254 --> 00:05:35.851
So philanthropic capitalism, I thought was going to be more of a popularized term by now.
00:05:35.851 --> 00:05:40.949
I did not create it, I found it in a series of articles from about 15 years ago.
00:05:40.949 --> 00:05:55.346
But basically, for your listeners, who are uncommon leaders, they are probably familiar with consumer products of one sort or another, whether it's apparel, whether it's consumer items in the grocery store.
00:05:55.346 --> 00:06:03.187
This is an increasing phenomenon, where businesses commit to a certain amount of profit for charitable use.
00:06:03.187 --> 00:06:07.985
There are some companies out there that say, hey, for every couple of shoes we sell, we give one to charity.
00:06:07.985 --> 00:06:14.774
There's a company out there that says we dedicate a certain amount to charity of our profits.
00:06:14.774 --> 00:06:24.242
There are certain companies, like grocery stores, that say here's the community impact we make with the funds that you give us when you come and shop in our stores.
00:06:24.242 --> 00:06:26.930
All of those are examples of philanthropic capitalism.
00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:41.189
The reason I mention it in the book, though, is that we find, in the world of the Christian capitalist, we find that philanthropic capitalism lacks one important thing, and it is the foundation of our religion, and that is love.
00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:47.060
Philanthropic capitalism without love is love, is, in many ways, pr and marketing right.
00:06:47.242 --> 00:07:19.964
Hey, look how good we are, look how we're supporting the community, but if you do it only for the purpose of making yourself look better and again, this is a trend that's really come on in the last 15 or 20 years there are companies want to show community impact, want to show positive impact on the community, and that's all good, but when it comes down to it you and I were talking about this a little bit before the podcast started when it comes down to it, even when you're speaking on behalf of an organization and many of the leaders who are listening to your podcast today are they've got a company 50, 100, 500, 5,000.
00:07:20.927 --> 00:07:23.673
But it all comes down to your individual relationship with God.
00:07:23.673 --> 00:07:34.130
And if you, as the leader, are creating the culture of your community that has this philanthropy, capitalism component, that's all well and good, but without love, it seems hollow.
00:07:34.130 --> 00:07:36.987
So so that's why we mentioned in the book.
00:07:36.987 --> 00:07:38.507
It's a great step in the right direction.
00:07:38.507 --> 00:07:42.290
I certainly want to encourage all the uncommon leaders who are listening today to keep doing it.
00:07:42.290 --> 00:07:55.091
But without that love of neighbor component, it seems from my, as you mentioned, very particular lens as entrepreneur, author, veteran and pastor it seems a little hollow without that love of neighbor.
00:07:55.939 --> 00:07:56.019
Rich.
00:07:56.019 --> 00:07:58.668
I love that and, again, you and I chatted offline right before that.
00:07:58.668 --> 00:08:30.250
I just got the chance over the past couple of days to spend really two days with a group of Christian business leaders talking about that very specific topic and what I kind of refer to it as moving from key performance indicators like revenue and profit and margin and customer service, which are all very important to the success I know you talk about this in your book as well to kingdom performance indicators and the impact we're having on our employees, our communities in the local church and, frankly, all the way out through the world.
00:08:30.250 --> 00:08:41.628
And that's where that tension exists Without love, in that there's oftentimes a I'll use this term as strong to be a fear of communicating that as well.
00:08:41.899 --> 00:08:47.990
So, in the biblical side, don't let the left hand know what the right hand is doing in terms of giving and don't be a braggart about that.
00:08:47.990 --> 00:08:53.350
But if we don't measure kingdom impact, how are we going to achieve kingdom impact?
00:08:53.350 --> 00:08:54.921
So you have to have a way to measure that.
00:08:54.921 --> 00:08:59.701
You talk about that one pair of socks for Bomba for everyone they sell, they give one away.
00:08:59.701 --> 00:09:17.187
Or organizations that give money for digging wells in communities that don't have clean drinking water, so many different things that are having kingdom impact that I believe, because of that tension that exists that they're afraid to talk about it is that we don't hear those stories and then more of those stories don't come about.
00:09:17.187 --> 00:09:29.894
So I'm so glad your book talks about some of those stories and you share so many different scriptural references as well as to what that means inside of us as Christians to give and how important it is.
00:09:30.640 --> 00:09:31.384
What's hard, john?
00:09:31.423 --> 00:09:32.649
There is a lot of tension in it.
00:09:32.659 --> 00:09:47.404
I mean, listen, one of the reasons I wrote this book is that when my job in the Episcopal Church, in our liturgy, my job, is to read the gospel, we have lay readers who read the other parts of the scriptures for a particular service.
00:09:47.404 --> 00:10:07.624
But in the gospel, when I have in my congregation folks who are wealth advisors or CPAs or financial advisors, folks who are wealthy by making other people wealthy, and I read the gospel that says Jesus told us that it's easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven.
00:10:07.624 --> 00:10:19.591
Or when he tells the rich young ruler hey, listen, there's only one other thing you need to do to inherit the kingdom, and that's sell everything you have and give it to the poor, and the rich man goes away sad because he has many things.
00:10:19.591 --> 00:10:26.573
I can see the look on the faces of the members of my congregation, and so the book is trying to help us wrestle with those tensions.
00:10:26.573 --> 00:10:29.447
They're all throughout the scripture and they're all throughout daily life.
00:10:30.730 --> 00:10:32.264
Love that, so let's jump right there.
00:10:32.264 --> 00:10:35.429
And it's one thing that we want to name the title Christian Capitalist.
00:10:35.429 --> 00:10:38.370
What does it mean to you, then, to be a Christian Capitalist?
00:10:38.679 --> 00:10:39.684
Oh, I'm so glad you asked.
00:10:39.684 --> 00:10:41.504
It means that, and this is why it's the subtitle.
00:10:41.504 --> 00:10:47.059
It means that, and this is why it's the subtitle it means that we work hard and give generously to the poor and needy, in the name of Jesus Christ.
00:10:47.059 --> 00:10:56.534
And, in fact, if there's one thing that if your listeners take away from today, I would like them to remember that the motto of the Christian capitalist is the more we make, the more we give.
00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:07.668
Profit on its own is, and the accumulation of profit for no other purpose is simply another way of expressing greed right for no other purpose is simply another way of expressing greed right.
00:11:07.668 --> 00:11:17.763
But accumulation of profit to then benefit your neighbor, your poor and needy neighbor in particular, to love them, is exactly what God had in mind for us when he sent us Jesus to say here's what you need to do Love God above all else.
00:11:17.763 --> 00:11:19.346
Love your neighbor, as I have loved you.
00:11:19.346 --> 00:11:33.875
Well, if you're a rich guy and you're surrounded by poor people and you don't give to them, or you're a rich guy and you're surrounded by poor people and you don't give to them, or you're a rich woman and you have all these, you know, have all these material possessions, but see people laying in the street without clothing or food or shelter.
00:11:33.875 --> 00:11:34.601
That's.
00:11:35.205 --> 00:12:09.120
you're missing the concept no-transcript the money to be able to carry out the mission.
00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:21.585
And so, as a Christian capitalist, we've got to be to bear fruit back into the Bible again, to bear fruit in the work that we do so that we can help others and both prosper ourselves but also help others.
00:12:21.585 --> 00:12:26.190
Name Jesus, and again, love is one of those perfect words that can be done.
00:12:26.274 --> 00:12:35.667
I agree with the nun who told you that so many years ago, before you know, as a business owner, you've got to have the ability, as you mentioned earlier.
00:12:35.667 --> 00:12:36.408
It's an important word.
00:12:36.408 --> 00:12:37.760
You've got to have sustainability.
00:12:37.760 --> 00:12:48.155
But once you have your house in order whether it's your individual house or your corporate house once you have your house in order, then the question is what do we want to do with it?
00:12:48.155 --> 00:12:51.604
Earlier this morning I spoke with a young woman.
00:12:51.604 --> 00:13:01.058
We're interviewing her to be an intern for our Christian Capitalist Project this summer and she's a sophomore in college, so maybe 19, maybe 20 years old.
00:13:01.058 --> 00:13:03.826
Pretty wise coming from a person of this age.
00:13:03.826 --> 00:13:11.748
She said I really love what you're doing because one day I want to own my own business and I want to make enough money to start a nonprofit.
00:13:11.748 --> 00:13:13.070
Isn't that wonderful.
00:13:13.070 --> 00:13:14.916
Someone can.
00:13:14.916 --> 00:13:20.500
As a business owner, someone can have that kind of vision even at that young age.
00:13:20.500 --> 00:13:22.582
Someone can have that kind of vision even at that young age.
00:13:22.582 --> 00:13:23.222
There's a business incubator.
00:13:23.222 --> 00:13:24.825
You probably saw on my bio.
00:13:24.865 --> 00:13:34.092
I taught healthcare law at Emory University for 20 years and so I had a new group of students come through every year and I just loved working with them Along the way.
00:13:34.092 --> 00:13:42.043
Emory set up a business incubator to help kids, students, get their business kind of proposals in mind and really launch things.
00:13:42.043 --> 00:13:48.417
I had a great discussion with the executive director there a couple of years ago and I don't think this is specific to Emory.
00:13:48.417 --> 00:13:51.645
I think this is specific to this next generation behind you and me.
00:13:51.645 --> 00:13:57.807
I said I'm just thrilled, executive director, that this place is full.
00:13:57.807 --> 00:14:03.884
All these people are coming here to learn how to start businesses and it's just, it's fantastic for capitalism, right?
00:14:03.903 --> 00:14:07.610
I'm an ardent stride and supporter of free enterprise.
00:14:07.610 --> 00:14:12.778
He's like, yeah, but it's interesting, nine out of 10 are here to start some kind of social impact nonprofit.
00:14:12.778 --> 00:14:14.101
Isn't that interesting?
00:14:14.101 --> 00:14:19.958
Yes, so I think this gets back to kind of one of the core concepts of the Christian capitalist.
00:14:19.958 --> 00:14:21.804
We are made in God's image.
00:14:21.804 --> 00:14:30.682
God made us in his image during the creation and we know a couple of things about God.
00:14:30.682 --> 00:14:38.888
The first is he worked very hard, right, he built the entire universe and earth in six days and he built us, and that he gives so hard work and generous giving are part of who we are as humans.
00:14:38.888 --> 00:14:52.943
You know we're unique among all the animals in creation and so that notion of wanting to start a business purely for the purpose of benefiting others is wonderful, but, like you said, no profit, no mission.
00:14:52.943 --> 00:14:54.226
Right, they got to come together.
00:14:55.455 --> 00:14:58.504
Hey listeners, I want to take a quick moment to share something special with you.
00:14:58.504 --> 00:15:06.482
Many of the topics and discussions we have on this podcast are areas where I provide coaching and consulting services for individuals and organizations.
00:15:06.482 --> 00:15:19.864
If you've been inspired by our conversation and are seeking a catalyst for change in your own life or within your team, I invite you to visit coachjohngallaghercom forward slash free call to sign up for a free coaching call with me.
00:15:19.864 --> 00:15:27.934
It's an opportunity for us to connect, discuss your unique challenges and explore how coaching or consulting can benefit you and your team.
00:15:27.934 --> 00:15:30.679
Okay, let's get back to the show.
00:15:32.964 --> 00:15:40.126
So I mean again, as you say, that I try not to think of the next one, but it's so critical that generation is coming up and they've got.
00:15:40.126 --> 00:15:45.462
I don't know which gen they are, it doesn't matter but, as you said, the generation behind us.
00:15:45.462 --> 00:15:59.485
I can't keep track of all the Ys and Zs and whatever they are, but they have a desire to give back, they have a real passion for social responsibility and yet sometimes what's missed is that importance.
00:15:59.485 --> 00:16:03.864
On the side of if there's no money, we have to teach them to run those nonprofits.
00:16:03.864 --> 00:16:05.461
We teach them to run those churches.
00:16:05.461 --> 00:16:20.783
By the way, this is coming from a guy with business, like a business Right, okay, that if you want that to be sustainable, if you want it to have the kingdom in back that you really have, then you need to utilize some fundamental business principles that are there.
00:16:20.802 --> 00:16:26.230
So I think that's one of the barriers that exists in that space is to make sure they're learning that as well.
00:16:26.230 --> 00:16:33.279
They get the liberal arts side of the work that they want to do and have an impact and they miss the business side of.
00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:35.767
Well, how do I make sure I'm solvent and can make that happen?
00:16:35.767 --> 00:16:38.379
You know another side of that is Christian.
00:16:38.379 --> 00:16:39.221
What are some of the other?
00:16:39.221 --> 00:16:57.807
Again another title that I missed when you just told me, as a professor, but as a pastor and as a business owner, and so then you're meeting with your congregation well, the people in your congregation, what are some of the other misconceptions or barriers that they run into about the relationship between Christianity and capitalism?
00:16:58.696 --> 00:17:00.539
It was a great question, I'll tell you.
00:17:00.539 --> 00:17:14.457
Getting back to the question you asked me earlier about philanthropic capitalism, you know, in talking either as a lawyer or as a professor and talking with folks who want to start a business, the first question I always ask is what is the mission?
00:17:14.457 --> 00:17:16.604
You know, what are you starting this business for?
00:17:16.604 --> 00:17:19.359
There's a great book out there called Start With why, right?
00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:21.104
So what are you trying to do?
00:17:21.104 --> 00:17:32.263
And the short answer is if you're starting a nonprofit and you want to have some kind of charitable effort, or if you're starting a business, either way, they have to be sustainable.
00:17:32.263 --> 00:17:38.567
The question is does one ultimately have no profit, so there are no shareholders to give a dividend to?
00:17:38.567 --> 00:17:43.276
Or do you have shareholders but still then offer that benefit to your neighbors?
00:17:44.377 --> 00:17:47.844
Our concept as the Christian capitalist is that you can do both.
00:17:47.844 --> 00:18:04.626
It is easy, starting with people who have committed their lives to God, who have said I want to give up everything I have to God and serve only him, and I'm going to enter a religious order and become a nun, just like that woman at the hospital that you worked with back in Chicago, right?
00:18:04.626 --> 00:18:05.448
But?
00:18:05.448 --> 00:18:11.726
But you can have the same level of commitment to God as a small business owner or an executive in business.
00:18:11.726 --> 00:18:17.656
It's just a different way to worship and it's a different way to glorify him, and so that's one of the biggest misconceptions, you know.
00:18:17.656 --> 00:18:30.111
We start with this concept of well, I can only worship and glorify God if I fully commit to the church, if I fully commit to religion, if I become a nun or a monk or, you know, pastor or priest.
00:18:30.111 --> 00:18:38.428
Otherwise, I'm just a business person and the best I can do is put something in the plate when it comes by or, these days, make my electronic contribution.
00:18:38.428 --> 00:18:42.576
And I just, I really want to discourage folks from that kind of mindset.
00:18:42.576 --> 00:18:47.205
When we work, we glorify God, and when we give, we glorify God.
00:18:47.205 --> 00:18:51.303
And that includes small business owners, like you just met with with your conference.
00:18:51.303 --> 00:18:52.686
That includes your listeners.
00:18:52.686 --> 00:19:04.838
Everybody can have the same kind of role of of serving and glorifying him, regardless of what kind of business they have, as long as they're helping others through that business.
00:19:04.838 --> 00:19:17.906
And that can be after a very successful year or a very successful string of years where folks are putting money in their 401ks, whether they're buying a new house or buying a new car or saving for their kid's college.
00:19:17.906 --> 00:19:25.005
All of those things are consistent with being a good Christian, as long as the end result is your love and your neighbor.
00:19:26.167 --> 00:19:32.201
John Wesley I had a great way of putting this because, again, you and I, one of the words we've been talking about a lot today is tension.
00:19:32.201 --> 00:19:34.978
There is some tension in the message here.
00:19:34.978 --> 00:19:44.784
And Wesley, back in 1750, john, I mean, so this is not a new concept, but he had a great way of describing it in three kind of instructions to his congregation.
00:19:44.784 --> 00:19:48.679
In his sermon on money, he said earn all you can.
00:19:48.679 --> 00:19:50.829
Now, that's, that's fantastic.
00:19:50.829 --> 00:19:52.877
Right, that's like straight out of wall street.
00:19:52.877 --> 00:19:54.614
You and I are guys from the 80s.
00:19:54.614 --> 00:19:56.337
Right, that's, that's gordon gecko.
00:19:56.357 --> 00:19:58.122
Talk, go, earn all you can.
00:19:58.122 --> 00:20:05.640
But then he throws everybody a pause and and the modern word we would say is sustainability, right, earn all you can, but then save all you can.
00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:11.875
Be a good steward of everything that you earn, and to me, for your listeners, that means get out of right.
00:20:11.875 --> 00:20:14.160
I'm starting to sound a little like Dave Ramsey now, but I'm not.
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:19.019
I'm not a financial advisor among all the careers that I've had, but it's you know.
00:20:19.019 --> 00:20:25.779
Get out of debt, be sustainable, save for yourself for the future, for when you're old and need healthcare cared for.
00:20:25.779 --> 00:20:38.577
Save for your kids, if you got them, so they can go to school wherever they choose in their college and have good savings and investments as part of your diversified portfolio.
00:20:38.719 --> 00:20:44.978
That's all good, but then Wesley said the third thing earn all you can, save all you can, give all you can.
00:20:44.978 --> 00:20:52.076
And so one of the things I love to talk to accountants about in particular, and financial advisors is that last part.
00:20:52.076 --> 00:20:56.842
How exactly do you save all you can and then give all you can?
00:20:56.842 --> 00:21:08.354
There's some tension in that, isn't there Absolutely, and I think the answer is that when?
00:21:08.354 --> 00:21:13.313
And that's why our motto is the more we make, the more we give, because if you give it all away, then you're not sustainable and you're becoming a burden on your neighbor, right?
00:21:13.313 --> 00:21:19.233
So you have to remain somehow solvent and in many cases, profitable, wealthy even.
00:21:19.233 --> 00:21:22.422
But you got to give, you know, and the more you make, the more you give.
00:21:22.422 --> 00:21:24.054
That's kind of the core concept.
00:21:24.555 --> 00:21:25.617
I'd love that again.
00:21:25.617 --> 00:21:33.693
And that last piece so earn it, save it absolutely, invest it, be wise stewards of those resources that you were given and then give back.
00:21:33.693 --> 00:21:37.753
I mean again, there's so many great stories, the parables of the talents or the menas.
00:21:37.753 --> 00:21:45.883
I mean all those different stories inside the Bible that provide us phenomenal guidance on how we should be utilizing the gifts that we've been given.
00:21:45.883 --> 00:21:47.292
And that's another side of it.
00:21:47.292 --> 00:21:58.628
I think, too, is that if you were given the gift of being a great leader and a great business person and go drive into that, don't think that you have to get back in the full-time ministry to actually serve.
00:21:58.628 --> 00:22:03.519
We talked about this weekend with those business leaders that that's the Sunday.
00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:17.599
If you will, one hour that you get inside a church versus the 40 hours minimum that you get a chance to minister to your organization through their work can be really powerful.
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:21.480
You have so much more time to have an impact on them inside of that space if we can get there.
00:22:22.069 --> 00:22:31.082
And this is where, 500 years ago, martin Luther was really the first that I'm aware of, the first to kind of take the notion of a calling or a vocation and take it outside the church.
00:22:31.082 --> 00:22:44.324
Because back during the Reformation, literally 500 years ago, he was telling people listen, if you're a cobbler, if you're a farmer, if you're a blacksmith, you're still glorifying God from your work.
00:22:44.324 --> 00:22:51.176
You don't have to go be a monk, you just got to have him in your heart when they're at your desk or your bench or your plow.
00:22:51.176 --> 00:23:04.936
And I just love that concept because that, to me, broadens out the way that we can serve God, so that every single person, including and especially the folks who are listening today every single person can glorify God through their work.
00:23:06.601 --> 00:23:06.961
Love that.
00:23:06.961 --> 00:23:09.990
Do you have a favorite story from the book that you wrote?
00:23:09.990 --> 00:23:12.018
I mean it's full of stories over there, Anything that's a favorite story from the book that you wrote.
00:23:12.018 --> 00:23:12.836
I mean it's full of stories over there, Anything that's a favorite.
00:23:13.230 --> 00:23:17.781
Yeah, I got to tell you the first one that jumped to mind, because there are a few stories in there.
00:23:17.781 --> 00:23:29.583
The first one that jumps to mind is when I was going through initial training, which our church is called Discernment Discernment of whether seminary and becoming a pastor was the right thing for me.
00:23:29.583 --> 00:23:45.672
The bishop in Atlanta sent a group of us 20 people down to this part of Atlanta, right near the state capitol, that had a big park that was kind of renowned for having homeless and said go spend the day at that park and talk to the homeless.
00:23:45.672 --> 00:23:52.980
So my buddy Peter and I are down there and we're wandering around and we had taken food with us to go give to the homeless.
00:23:52.980 --> 00:24:04.023
Right, I mean, we're affluent guys from different part of Atlanta, we're heading down, we're going to go help the homeless, and so we run into this dude and had a terrific conversation with him.
00:24:04.549 --> 00:24:07.640
John, imagine it's a nice sunny day in October.
00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:10.690
He's laying in the grass in a park on a blue sky day.
00:24:10.690 --> 00:24:11.632
State Capitol is right here, right.
00:24:11.632 --> 00:24:11.955
And here come these.
00:24:11.955 --> 00:24:12.192
He's African in the grass in a park on a blue sky day.
00:24:12.192 --> 00:24:12.624
State Capitol is right here, right.
00:24:12.624 --> 00:24:13.444
And here come these.
00:24:13.444 --> 00:24:14.705
He's African American.
00:24:14.705 --> 00:24:17.829
Here come, these white guys, and we got a bunch of food.
00:24:17.829 --> 00:24:35.079
We're like, hey, man, we just started talking with him and once we did, we realized how completely misguided we were in preconceived notions we had of what it means to be rich, and so this is why it's one of my favorites in the stories in the book.
00:24:35.339 --> 00:24:39.522
This dude's got rags on and as we're talking to him he's laying in the grass.
00:24:39.522 --> 00:24:44.247
He's got a big kind of pouch beside him, what we would call a soft side cooler with a strap on it right.
00:24:44.247 --> 00:24:46.155
And I'm like well, where do you live?
00:24:46.155 --> 00:24:48.792
And he's like right over there, under that bridge.
00:24:48.792 --> 00:24:51.155
And he points to what in Atlanta is called the connector Interstate.
