Transforming Leadership: Kyle McDowell's Journey from Boss to 'We-Oriented' Leader

Transcript

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The more influence and scope and sphere of influence that you have, the more detractors you open yourself up to, the more criticism that you are probably likely to hear.

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So the man in the arena speech from Roosevelt speaks to me in that anybody can manage, anybody can be a boss, but unless you've actually invested the time, the energy, the care into being a leader of others, which is very different than a boss or a manager you don't know what you're talking about.

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Hey, uncommon Leaders, welcome back.

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This is the Uncommon Leader Podcast and I'm your host, john Gallagher.

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Today I'm excited to bring you a dynamic conversation I had with Kyle McDowell, an innovative leader who has not only transformed organizations but also authored the powerful book Begin With we.

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In our discussion, kyle takes us through his 10 principles for effective leadership, emphasizing the necessity of doing the right thing and fostering a culture of accountability.

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He opens up about his personal transformation from a traditional authoritative boss to a leader who values team synergy and collective success.

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Boss to a leader who values team synergy and collective success.

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We'll explore how he first shaped these principles to guide an organizational shift and then later recognize their broader significance as fundamental beliefs shaping leadership culture.

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This episode is packed with invaluable lessons for anyone aspiring to be an effective leader.

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So let's get started.

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Kyle McDowell, it's great to have you on the Uncommon Leader podcast today as a guest.

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I'm looking forward to our conversation.

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How are things going for you?

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Hey, John man, it's really great to be here.

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I've been really looking forward to this one, so thank you for the opportunity to join you today.

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I'm looking forward to it as well.

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I've had a chance to get ready, I know, as we record this thing, you've just been through the storm that's coming up the East Coast and it's going to hit us here in Myrtle Beach here pretty soon, so we'll be ready for that.

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But that won't stop our conversation from being good.

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I'm going to start you off with the same first question.

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I always start my first time guests and that's to tell me a story from your childhood that still impacts who you are as a person or as a leader today.

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Man, I don't know that there's one, one specific story that I would point to, but rather a period of time.

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So when I growing up, I grew up in a very rural area.

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I grew up in what we call the strawberry capital of the world.

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Across the street from my home was or my childhood home was a cow pasture 40 acres of cows.

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Behind us was woods, incredibly rural, and I spent every single summer at the Boys and Girls Club Happened to be about half a mile away and back in those days I would just walk down there, maybe ride a bike, with some other kids, and they had a program that they called the Blue Hats and every summer, 13, 14, 50-year-olds would get a blue hat, and that was kind of your anointment as a leader within the Boys and Girls Club, and it was an honor to be a blue hat and I would work two, three months every summer.

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At the end of the month I would get a paycheck for about $150, $200 for all three months worth of work.

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But it was during that time that I realized the importance of authenticity in leadership, the importance of looking out for others around you more so than just yourself.

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And there was a guy there, the director of the Boys and Girls Club, who was like a second dad to me.

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That instilled so many important values and work ethics in me that I'm forever grateful to have been associated with he and the Boys and Girls Club and continue to be a big fan of the Boys and Girls Club here in Florida.

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So, as you go through, there's so many stories right within that in terms of the pasture and we'll talk about putting sacred cows out the pasture but also influencers in life and what happens in relationships that we build, and even the simple things like riding a bike a half mile, where we don't see that enough anymore with regards to how kids are being raised.

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So I appreciate you sharing that and I can almost see it in terms of going back.

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I know that baseball summertime for me and walking to the bottom of the hill just hoping somebody would pick me up on the way of the baseball field, because it was a little more than a half mile, but it was a long walk in the summertime, so I got you.

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I appreciate it.

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Hey, we're here to talk about a book that you've written called Begin With we, and before I dive into that, it's been a couple of years and I can't wait to hear the story about how that's going for you.

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But ultimately it talks about the 10 principles for building and sustaining a culture of excellence.

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There's so much just in the title and subtitle of that book that I could stay and we could focus on just for an hour and all the words that are in there, and I want to start there.

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When you think about the word culture and building and sustaining culture, what is first of all, what is like your definition of culture in an organization?

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How have you experienced that?

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So for me, I love that question too, john, because there's so many quote unquote gurus that have varying opinions on what culture is, what it isn't how to transform one, how to drive one.

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For me it's very simple Culture is nothing more than the energy, the vibe, the atmosphere, the environment in which we operate every single day.

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It's not what we do, but it's how we feel about what we do, between our logging on, logging off, walking in, walking out, whatever your scenario is.

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That's how I would describe culture.

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But I take it a step further.

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I talk about a culture of excellence which to me is a little bit different, I think, than most leadership gurus or leadership nerds which I would categorize myself as one of those look at it a bit differently.

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For me, a culture of excellence almost equally weighs the personal goals of members of the team which is kind of, I think, a wild thought for some to comprehend as well as the individuals on the team's professional goals and, of course, the corporate goals.

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And I think that's the triumvirate or three legs of the stool that, to me, drive what I would call a culture of excellence and the important component there.

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I don't think anybody would be surprised that a culture of excellence would involve professional goals as well as the company's goals.

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But adding the personal goals, I think, connects the team member to the work that we do, the impact that they can and have.

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And oh, by the way, when we acknowledge one's personal goals, even if and maybe even especially if they're not connected to what we do, what our team does or even what the organization more broadly does, for example, they're using this as a platform or an opportunity to put some cash away to go start their own side hustle, or perhaps they're just using it to gain experience to put them in a better position for another role down the line.

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When we align on that component, one's personal goals the connection between leader and team member is strengthened.

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I have found the effort that one gives when they recognize that, hey, the leader cares more about me as a person and my individual growth than they do about the results and the things that I can deliver for the team.

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So that connection becomes so much stronger and ultimately the team performs better because they know they're in an environment that encourages their personal growth as much, if not more, than the KPIs that they can deliver.

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Love that.

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I'm going to put a pin in it too, because I got a question later on about that personal side that I read about in your book that I want to come back to.

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I want to stay on the title for just a little bit, and actually I love the definition.

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You talk about that culture.

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It's the vibe, it's the atmosphere, the energy that exists, and it wasn't intentional necessarily that I had the excellent shirt.

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You mentioned the nerdy leadership guy.

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That's me as well, and I'll buy the T-shirt that's got the names on the front of it.

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That goes forward.

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But you mentioned in the subtitle as well the principles.

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Now, before we hit the record button, I talked about this word principles has been on my mind a bunch in terms of definition and how it can be confused with core values and the difference in principles, and I'm reading a book now that talks about seven principles for success as well, reading a book now that talks about seven principles for success as well.

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When you wrote that word principles, what was there for you and your intention behind that word?

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Man, I got to be completely honest with you when I created the 10 wheeze, which are the foundation of the book.

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There's these 10 principles that I identified while leading a pretty big organization, about 15,000 people.

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When I first joined this company, I was like we need a transformation.

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And it was not a secret.

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The hiring manager who brought me aboard was pretty transparent in that there was an opportunity to revive and revitalize the leaders within the organization, and so the night before I was going to meet with the top 40 or 50 leaders of the organization, about 60 days into my stint there, I created these 10,.

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Well, at the time I just called them the 10 wheeze.

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I wasn't, admittedly, I wasn't even intimately familiar with the definition of a principle.

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They felt like principles to me, but I wasn't really even sure what that meant.

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And it was only over the course of the subsequent several months, and now six or seven years, that I've become such a principally driven person in both my work and personal lives.

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And for your audience, let's be really clear, and this is why I think principles are so important in the workplace and as part of our leadership toolbox, because a principle, by definition, is our system of beliefs.

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It's our foundation for system of beliefs or a chain of reasoning.

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So it's why we do what we do, it's who we are.

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It is, I like to say, the prescription for our leadership legacy.

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It's the things that, externally and internally, we'd like to be known for in terms of how we approach the things that we do.

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So when we align a team around a series of principles, again, if we can get a team of people and I don't care if it's the bowling team, the chess team, the stamp club, I don't care but if there's a group of people aligned around a common mission and that is in the corporate world, it's what we do for a living and you get that team, that group of people, that group of humans, to subscribe to a series of foundational beliefs, all collectively aligned on these beliefs.

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The connections and bonds that form are so much stronger than a bunch of people kind of doing their own thing without a prescription for how we behave, because, man, I believe so strongly.

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Most organizations do a pretty good job teaching team members and leaders how to conduct the X's and O's of their work, whatever it is right.

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Training is usually pretty good in most places, if not formal, there's some on the job training.

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But in other words, we care a lot and spend a lot of time and energy in how we want people to do the work, but we don't spend a lot of time and energy on establishing a code of behavior, our level of expectations for one another.

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How do we react to adversity?

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How do we react at times of high performance?

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How do we take care of one another when someone's struggling with?

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Whatever the scenario is?

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So for me, designing these principles, watching them become gosh like the manifesto of now dozens of organizations.

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Since I've written the book, I've never been more confident than I am now that principles in the workplace, within a team, now you got to live them.

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I've never been more convinced that that is a recipe for principles, are a recipe for high performance.

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Love that.

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Again.

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I think about the recipe or the prescription for high performance.

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It is are those things that if you don't have those ingredients in there, you're going to see gaps inside the organization.

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I think it's something that's pretty powerful.

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So you know, you mentioned your story and how you got those developed as well, starting with the in the introduction, starting with a blank piece of paper late at night, and you know it's like these things just came to you and I don't think they came to you just out of that.

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You've led small teams and you led big organizations, multi-billion dollar teams with regards to your success.

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So beginning with we in that space, I would suggest, might be a little uncommon in terms of folks who are leading an organization or a team that has that much responsibility.

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So the early on, even before your introduction in the book, you put one of my favorite quotes in there as well, and that was the Teddy Roosevelt quote about, quote about being in the arena.

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Where did that come from?

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You have quotes laced throughout the book that are really cool, but where did that one come from for you and why was it so important that it was like the first thing that was in the book for you?

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Man, I, I.

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So I spent nearly 30 years in corporate America, 28 years in big, big organizations.

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I've I've been with three fortune 10 firms.

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I've led tens of thousands of employees throughout my career, which I consider to be an absolute privilege.

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I mean, anytime you have an opportunity to kind of have an impact on that many people, it's a heck of a responsibility that I have always taken very seriously.

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But with that and I say this pretty openly and I think it's unfortunate, but I do believe this to be the case the higher quote, unquote, higher you ascend inside of business.

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So the bigger your scope, the wider your sphere of influence.

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A few things happen.

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First is your jokes get funnier.

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Everybody wants that FaceTime and wants to get time with you to maybe plug what they're doing, just to be in good favor with the boss.

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You get treated a lot differently.

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Target and I don't mean that as dramatic as it sounds but the more influence and scope and sphere of influence that you have, the more detractors you open yourself up to, the more criticism that you are probably likely to hear.

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And especially when you're leading 15,000 people, it's impossible to get all 15,000 on board.

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So the man in the arena quote or speech from Roosevelt speaks to me in that anybody can manage, anybody can be a boss, anybody can tell other people what to do, but unless you've actually invested the time, the energy, the care into being a leader of others which is very different than a boss or a manager you don't know what you're talking about.

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You just don't know the trials and issues and the wins and just all the things that come with leading even just one person.

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So it's easy for any number of people to be critical of one's leadership approach, how they approach what they do every day, how they motivate, inspire others.

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It's very easy to be critical, but unless you've been in those shoes and actually worked hard and with a real focus on growth and development of those around you, not just your own personal accolades, you really don't know what you're talking about.

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I don't know how else to say it, and that's the spirit of the Roosevelt speech.

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It's like anybody can judge, anybody can have an opinion, but it's those that actually stick their neck out, try to make change.

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And, john, we didn't plan this, so hopefully your audience doesn't feel pandered to.

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But the name of your podcast man is, I think, also connected.

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Like anybody can be a boss or manager, I guess you could argue anybody can be a leader.

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But to be an uncommon leader is something that takes a hell of a lot of effort, and if you have never tried that is something that takes a hell of a lot of effort.

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And if you have never tried that, you really can't have an opinion on how that feels and the impact you can have.

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But also the struggles and dude.

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It's a hell of a lot of work to be an uncommon leader.

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Let's not get it twisted so anyway.

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That's the genesis of using that quote to kick off the book.

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No, I love that.

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I mean even talk about in about in terms of uncommon cause.

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You're right.

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I mean it takes um consistency gosh.

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I mean sticking your neck out 15,000 people.

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You're right, there are going to be critics who are going to absolutely just try to destroy you and bring you down.

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Uh, it creates a level of thick skin that you must have to be able to take those arrows.

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But also, frankly, as leaders who do care, that means they've got a heart as well is that you've got to find those who are lifting you up and be sure to pay attention to them as well, so that you have that affirmation that keeps you inspired, that keeps you, as a leader, encouraged from it as well.

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So I think you're spot on.

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The uncommon side for me is doing ordinary things, uh, in an extraordinary way.

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It's consistently, day in, over and over again.

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You don't get tired of it and regardless of how strong the wind is that blows against you, like you all went through in Tampa last night you know it's something that you're going to keep.

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You're going to keep coming back to on a regular basis.

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So I appreciate the recognition of the name inside of that as well.

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And you looked, and those are watching on YouTube especially.

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You can see your book cover behind it and all 10 of the we's, if you will, in a picture frame piece of artwork, black and white, simple.

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That's going down.

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So you're three o'clock in the morning, you're writing down these we statements.

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You present that it goes really well.

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People are bought in three or four years later you convert it to a book.

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Why does it?

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Why does it write a book and who did you write it for?

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Hey, john, first kudos to you, my man.

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Fantastic observation of everything being in black and white.

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That's not.

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That's not unintentional.

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As a matter of fact, when I wrote the principles that evening in Lawrence, kansas, and shared them via a PowerPoint the next morning, the entire presentation was black and white, because I just so strongly believe that when you align a group around a series of principles, there is no gray.

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This is who we are, this is how we behave.

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You're either on this team and you subscribe to these principles or you don't.

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Now, having not walked through the 10 principles with you and maybe some of your readers have been so kind enough to pick up the book I think you would agree that anyone who cannot embrace a team that is focused on doing the right thing, leading by example, taking action all the way through, all the 10th one through, through 10 of those weeks and you don't want them anyway.

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So that's why, for me, being black and white was so intentional.

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And also, you mentioned the morning or the day that I shared the principles.

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I need to be really clear, in fairness to, to to all involved.

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Man, I would say half the audience that morning, of those 50 leaders or so were were really energized.

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They thought they had really been turned on to something cool.

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A quarter of the group was maybe skeptical is the right word and another quarter of the group was just downright this guy's full of shit.

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And it took several, several months to kind of earn and I'm not naive, I never earned the admiration and respect for all of them.

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That's just as we just talked about.

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That's not going to happen.

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But so the principles began to take hold and I was really clear this is back in 2018.

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I was really clear to not push them.

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I believe strongly that top-down culture initiatives or transformation efforts they're hollow and and it's kind of like you know what's that expression Beatings will continue until the morale improves, like it's not right.

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So that's.

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I think top-down initiatives on that front come across a little bit inauthentic.

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So I was purposeful to stand back and kind of let the team embrace them or not.

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I wasn't going to force them.

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All I said was just know, I will hold you accountable to these standards and I feel very strongly about this because I'm going to say completely honestly and open that I expect you to hold me accountable as well, which is, you know, talk about an uncommon leader to say, listen, this is a two-way street.

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And, by the way, I should note, I was not that same leader the first 20-ish years of my career.

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I was a bang my fist on the desk guy.

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I have all the answers, I don't need your input.

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So it was quite a transformation for me as well.

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So I spent three years at that organization.

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We delivered unprecedented results at nearly every measurable.

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But more important to me was the transition and transformation I saw of lifelong bosses into real leaders, people that genuinely saw the bigger picture, more so than just their little silo of the team.

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I left that organization, joined a massive pharmaceutical firm where I spent just over a year leading another 15,000 people, and that's when I realized this is my calling, it's my purpose.

00:20:25.701 --> 00:20:35.539
This is why I'm here is to help others reconnect with passion and purpose, the optimism that we all entered the workforce with that so many of us, including me we lose over time.

00:20:35.539 --> 00:20:41.317
So when I left that firm, I got a phone call from a direct report of mine from the previous company.

00:20:41.317 --> 00:20:45.019
It was like, literally, I mean, the conversation went just like this dude.

00:20:45.019 --> 00:20:48.531
I was talking to Brian the other night and we decided you got to write a book.

00:20:48.531 --> 00:20:52.520
And I said me write a book, no shot.

00:20:52.520 --> 00:20:53.482
That's not happening.

00:20:53.482 --> 00:20:56.923
And the more I thought about it, the more I think it felt.

00:20:56.923 --> 00:21:01.220
It began to feel like an obligation rather than an adventure or a charter.

00:21:01.220 --> 00:21:05.232
It's just like okay, you've developed these principles, they've changed your life.

00:21:05.232 --> 00:21:09.951
They have genuinely changed the lives of so many others Not my opinion, that's what they tell me.

00:21:09.951 --> 00:21:12.536
I said, okay, let me give this some thought.

00:21:13.076 --> 00:21:20.314
I signed a contract with a publisher and I was about three-fourths of the way done with the book, and the book was going to just be called the 10.

00:21:20.314 --> 00:21:23.111
We's Not super creative, so that was going to be the title.

00:21:23.111 --> 00:21:26.080
But my publisher was like no, you got to come up with something better than that.

00:21:26.080 --> 00:21:30.682
So we had a handful of potential titles and I'll never forget this conversation as well.

00:21:37.650 --> 00:21:40.884
I had a one-on-one with a former direct report of mine from that same company who, seven years later, we still have almost monthly, if not every six or seven weeks.

00:21:40.884 --> 00:21:43.634
She and I check in with one another in a very similar way that we did when we worked together.

00:21:43.634 --> 00:21:48.694
And I said, julia, I'm thinking about naming the book begin with we, what do you think?

00:21:48.694 --> 00:21:52.884
And about half a second she replied to say that's it.

00:21:52.884 --> 00:21:54.214
I said well, why are you so adamant?

00:21:54.214 --> 00:21:54.696
Why is that?

00:21:54.696 --> 00:21:56.375
She said, well, that's what you did with us.

00:21:56.375 --> 00:21:57.599
I said say more.

00:21:58.391 --> 00:22:06.196
She said when you joined, you know you had this resume of big companies, leading massive teams, huge P&Ls, but you didn't focus on any of that.

00:22:06.517 --> 00:22:11.785
You spent your energy and time with us on the we, what we could do together.

00:22:11.825 --> 00:22:19.382
You were clear on what you needed from us to be successful and you were wide open about what you could do for us at the same time.

00:22:19.382 --> 00:22:22.359
So it wasn't kind of like I'm the new guy, I know everything, I'm here to help.

00:22:22.359 --> 00:22:27.375
It was more like I need you for me to be successful and I hope to think likewise.

00:22:27.375 --> 00:22:32.056
I can add some value to you guys, for your teams as well, and help you be successful.

00:22:32.056 --> 00:22:35.509
I can add some value to you guys, you know, for your teams as well, and help you be successful.

00:22:35.509 --> 00:22:45.320
So I just think it's really cool commentary of the relationships that were formed after those principles were developed and cascaded throughout our organization that the leaders of that organization are still so firmly in touch with them.

00:22:45.320 --> 00:23:03.842
They still have the 10-week awards, they still have their annual appraisals are largely revolve around these principles and I've just been fortunate enough to take this book, the concept of the book around the world now speak to thousands of people and help other organizations implement the same 10 principles.

00:23:05.190 --> 00:23:08.240
Hey listeners, I want to take a quick moment to share something special with you.

00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:16.241
Many of the topics and discussions we have on this podcast are areas where I provide coaching and consulting services for individuals and organizations.

00:23:16.241 --> 00:23:29.632
If you've been inspired by our conversation and are seeking a catalyst for change in your own life or within your team, I invite you to visit coachjohngallaghercom forward slash free call to sign up for a free coaching call with me.

00:23:29.632 --> 00:23:37.641
It's an opportunity for us to connect, discuss your unique challenges and explore how coaching or consulting can benefit you and your team.

00:23:37.641 --> 00:23:40.376
Okay, let's get back to the show.

00:23:43.491 --> 00:23:44.095
I love that.

00:23:44.095 --> 00:23:46.115
That is such a cool again.

00:23:46.115 --> 00:23:50.297
The people in your life that stick around with you, the ones that you impact the most.

00:23:50.297 --> 00:23:53.311
I often think about that as the greatest story ever told.

00:23:53.311 --> 00:23:59.557
They're the ones that are going to be in a room one day and write your name, kyle, on their list of people who have made a positive impact on your life.

00:23:59.557 --> 00:24:04.759
So I see that as the greatest story ever told and that is a really cool legacy and vision to have.

00:24:05.402 --> 00:24:06.451
You know you touched on.

00:24:06.451 --> 00:24:13.584
You used to be a pound the fist kind of boss versus leader.

00:24:13.584 --> 00:24:21.661
You say in the book a boss is me oriented where a leader is we oriented the 10 we's.

00:24:21.661 --> 00:24:26.018
Tell me more about that personal transformation that you went through.

00:24:26.018 --> 00:24:27.000
Was there a catalyst?

00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:33.951
Was there a moment, was there some person who smacked you in the side of the head and say, dude, what are you doing?

00:24:33.951 --> 00:24:34.512
What was it?

00:24:34.553 --> 00:24:49.958
Yeah, yeah, great question, man, love that question and I'm often asked that evening that you captured those principles, as you mentioned, it was late or early in the morning before I finished them.

00:24:49.958 --> 00:24:52.321
There was no muse on my shoulder.

00:24:52.321 --> 00:25:01.452
I had no idea and, as a matter of fact, if anyone would have told me you'd be talking about these principles seven years later in the wall street journal in USA today, bestseller that you'd written, I would just laugh you out of the room.

00:25:01.452 --> 00:25:07.593
But, um, the transition from boss to leader to me, I think, happened that night.

00:25:07.593 --> 00:25:10.778
As odd as it sounds, um, I viewed that.

00:25:10.798 --> 00:25:13.243
So I was really disenfranchised with corporate America.

00:25:13.243 --> 00:25:16.876
I left it all and I really didn't have a plan.

00:25:16.876 --> 00:25:34.153
I just knew that the apathy I had developed, the toxicity and dysfunction that I witnessed at every single level for people that even people I thought were my friends, I learned there was a lot of malice and some real nefarious behavior behind the scenes which was so disheartening to me.

00:25:34.153 --> 00:25:46.479
So I left a previous organization and I told myself, if I ever had a chance to lead differently, be the leader I never had almost be autonomous in driving a massive cultural transformation, I would take it.

00:25:46.479 --> 00:26:00.720
So I joined this company and that night when I knew I had to put something compelling together for the team, and that night when I knew I had to put something compelling together for the team, I just went through a laundry list of things that really annoyed me and frustrated me about classic corporate America, like people making promises and not keeping them.

00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:05.663
You know people being duplicitous about you know having one opinion in one meeting, that same topic.

00:26:05.663 --> 00:26:10.747
Later the day, in a different meeting, they have the very opposite opinion, just to suit what they think their bosses want to hear.

00:26:10.747 --> 00:26:15.233
I became so just kind of, as I mentioned, detached.

00:26:16.757 --> 00:26:34.443
So that evening when I wrote those principles, it occurred to me that I knew, for whatever reason, I had the confidence that for me to be successful in this new role and by successful I mean make a difference, deliver better results, but also form connections that I can be proud of.

00:26:34.443 --> 00:26:39.021
When folks are at home around the dinner table talking about this boss Kyle, what are they going to say?

00:26:39.021 --> 00:26:43.060
And I knew I needed to be active in having a role in what they said.

00:26:43.060 --> 00:26:57.346
It occurred to me that evening that if I establish a series of beliefs because I didn't even use the word principles that evening I could do a couple of things, I could show that I was relatable.

00:26:57.346 --> 00:27:06.696
In other words, I understand that you might be skeptical of this new guy, but I also understand you're going to find value in things like we challenge each other.

00:27:06.696 --> 00:27:09.551
You're going to find value in things like we take action.

00:27:09.551 --> 00:27:14.846
So that was probably part A.

00:27:15.046 --> 00:27:24.279
But I also believe, in addition to that relatability, they would see me as being authentic because I could say directly make no mistake, I will hold you accountable to these principles.

00:27:24.279 --> 00:27:32.900
And I literally said, john, that morning, the next morning in Lawrence Kansas, I said and if I'm not following them, I need you to grab me by the ear and say dude, you're not being who you say you are.

00:27:32.900 --> 00:27:39.001
I was that open and it's that combination of authenticity and relatability I think that creates trust.

00:27:39.001 --> 00:27:44.122
So I have to acknowledge, the next morning I was terrified.

00:27:44.122 --> 00:27:50.461
I didn't know exactly how these principles would go over and I wasn't sure, you know, if they would resonate with the team.

00:27:50.461 --> 00:27:53.460
And it turns out, ultimately it did, they did.

00:27:53.460 --> 00:28:08.082
So I think that authenticity and relatability driving trust was what really helped me get over that hump of okay, you've always done it this way and, by the way, I should add, it's really hard to make a change when, historically, the way you've behaved has driven quote unquote success.

00:28:08.651 --> 00:28:10.834
I had the biggest titles I ever could have imagined.

00:28:10.834 --> 00:28:13.178
I was making more money than I ever thought I would make.

00:28:13.178 --> 00:28:18.576
I had a bigger team and set of teams and organization that I ever anticipated or dreamt of having.

00:28:18.576 --> 00:28:26.961
So it's hard to say I was approaching leadership wrong, because all of the tangible results that we all chase and aspire to achieve they were all there.

00:28:26.961 --> 00:28:33.354
But I also look back and realize the people that I thought had a ton of respect for me in those previous 20 plus years.

00:28:33.354 --> 00:28:34.974
I learned they actually feared me.

00:28:34.974 --> 00:28:37.336
They actually had more fear than they had respect.

00:28:37.336 --> 00:28:41.038
So if I wanted the same results, I knew exactly what to do.

00:28:41.640 --> 00:29:00.010
But if I wanted to find true fulfillment and have an impact much greater than any one KPI or any one quarterly review, I felt like I had to change how I approached my leadership game, and I am just so grateful that I happened to have a team that was receptive to something different.

00:29:00.010 --> 00:29:14.184
And, by the way, I spoke at that same company about two weeks ago, maybe three weeks ago, in a different business unit of that massive $4 billion organization, and it continues to resonate.

00:29:14.184 --> 00:29:16.621
So I'm just I'm grateful for the way it was received.

00:29:16.621 --> 00:29:21.823
I'm humbled by what the book has been able to accomplish for about at least 15,000 readers.

00:29:21.823 --> 00:29:23.971
At this point We've sold over 15,000 copies.

00:29:23.971 --> 00:29:28.137
But there was no sentinel event in my transition or transformation.

00:29:28.137 --> 00:29:35.490
It was something that was probably growing over multiple months, if not years.

00:29:35.490 --> 00:29:40.422
But you said a word earlier, john, that I can't let go, and that's consistency.

00:29:40.422 --> 00:29:46.373
Anybody can write their 10 principles, anybody can step out and motivate a bunch of people, but can you live it every single day?

00:29:46.373 --> 00:29:47.335
That's the challenge.

00:29:47.936 --> 00:29:50.122
Yep, I often talk to organizations about that.

00:29:50.122 --> 00:30:12.641
So when you've got these principles up on a wall, you know I can walk through your organization and see if you can hear, and see if you're truly living them out, and that's not just a poster on the wall, because you can not just have to ask people but you can just see in how they work, how they walk around the office, how they communicate and smile when they're at work, that there's different ways to see that.

00:30:12.641 --> 00:30:15.459
Now, as you said, it's not always easy.

00:30:15.459 --> 00:30:23.775
There'll be those ones who won't exist, and that's when I come back to that point you made about the difference in personal goals and professional goals.

00:30:23.775 --> 00:30:27.736
There are going to be some that say, yeah, I don't want to live by those principles.

00:30:27.736 --> 00:30:38.337
You got a story, one you had to have a, let's say, conversation or more with with regards to a misalignment on those principles.

00:30:39.220 --> 00:30:43.894
Too many to count One, so I'll share probably my favorite example.

00:30:43.894 --> 00:30:47.182
So I mentioned earlier that morning when I shared the principles.

00:30:47.182 --> 00:30:49.534
Half the group was seemed pretty optimistic, energized.

00:30:49.534 --> 00:30:53.740
A quarter was skeptical and one quarter was like no.

00:30:53.740 --> 00:31:06.683
There was a woman in that group of the no group, uh, who was a direct report of mine, um, who was really difficult at almost every turn and, um, I didn't know why.

00:31:06.683 --> 00:31:11.136
I just it felt as if that was just who she was and she just wasn't on board.

00:31:11.136 --> 00:31:18.619
Now I should note also, the fellow who had the role before me was fired and I believe the woman who had the role before him was also let go.

00:31:18.619 --> 00:31:30.174
So she had seen people come and go and here's this new guy in a very starched shirt and some really shiny patent leather shoes who's saying what he can do for us and how he needed us and how these principles were going to change who we are.

00:31:30.174 --> 00:31:36.336
She was just downright skeptical, so much so that I'll never forget.

00:31:36.356 --> 00:31:39.130
Within the first 30 days or so having worked with her, I said hey, julia, and I use her name because she knows I tell the story.

00:31:39.130 --> 00:31:39.369
Now.

00:31:39.369 --> 00:31:45.049
I said, hey, julia, I need you to send me that Excel workbook because I'm still new to the role.

00:31:45.049 --> 00:31:45.611
I want to learn.

00:31:45.611 --> 00:31:51.842
I want to look behind the scenes, behind the cells, and look at some references to see how we arrived at some numbers that we're sharing with our client.

00:31:51.842 --> 00:31:53.884
Well, julia sent me a screenshot.

00:31:53.884 --> 00:31:56.088
Not helpful.

00:31:56.088 --> 00:31:59.759
Anybody that's ever worked in Excel knows a screenshot of Excel is not helpful.

00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:03.095
I said Julia, come on, man, send me the workbook please.

00:32:03.095 --> 00:32:10.476
She sent me a workbook with only one tab, so it didn't have all the other tabs that referenced the final output of the numbers.

00:32:10.476 --> 00:32:11.578
That was you know.

00:32:11.578 --> 00:32:14.723
So I couldn't see the references, I couldn't see the formulas, I couldn't see how we arrived at these numbers.

00:32:14.723 --> 00:32:21.190
So here's a guy who has led 20 plus years banging fist on the desk my way or the highway.

00:32:21.190 --> 00:32:22.512
Damn it, send me the workbook.

00:32:23.414 --> 00:32:36.457
But I, for whatever reason, man in this direct report of mine, who I did not like at all, she was just so difficult Um, one of the principles, two of the principles are we challenge each other.

00:32:36.457 --> 00:32:39.873
That's number eight, and we number nine is we embrace challenge.

00:32:39.873 --> 00:32:49.397
And I just had this feeling, man, I was overcome, that if I reacted the way I wanted to react, I'm a hypocrite.

00:32:49.397 --> 00:32:52.055
I just stood in front of the group and said we challenge each other.

00:32:52.055 --> 00:32:52.569
Yes, she's challenging me, not in a productive way, not in a hypocrite.

00:32:52.569 --> 00:32:52.779
I just stood in front of the group and said we challenge each other.

00:32:52.779 --> 00:32:56.872
Yes, she's challenging me, not in a productive way, not in a way that's healthy, not in a way that makes us any better.

00:32:56.872 --> 00:33:00.541
But, more importantly, I said I'm the guy that's going to embrace challenge.

00:33:00.541 --> 00:33:05.181
So had I reacted the way I wanted to, I would have lost Julia out of the gate.

00:33:06.109 --> 00:33:07.633
Here's the beautiful part of the story.

00:33:07.633 --> 00:33:15.597
I mentioned earlier, maybe 10 minutes ago, that this one individual and I have maintained a one-on-one every four to six weeks since we first met.

00:33:15.597 --> 00:33:17.122
That's Julia.

00:33:17.122 --> 00:33:21.772
She's become one of my closest business colleagues.

00:33:21.772 --> 00:33:24.799
Friend is probably a better description.

00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:26.683
She ultimately was promoted.

00:33:28.231 --> 00:33:33.082
When I first met her, she was managing I don't know maybe 150, 200 people.

00:33:33.082 --> 00:33:37.400
Tops, as of last count, she had 14,000 employees.

00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:43.102
So I just think that's a commentary of so many things.

00:33:43.102 --> 00:34:30.936
But for me it was about being what I wanted others to see me as, and that was a guy who was open to challenge, a guy that wanted us to have difficult conversations, even if awkward, and the broader commentary of the impact that A Julia had on me making sure I took my own medicine, but B it seems like she's better off for our friendship and experiences together, and so she's one of many that, either directly or indirectly, through their actions, kind of voiced that these principles are hogwash, for lack of a better, cleaner expression, which makes it so much sweeter today when I look back and she's asked me to speak to her new team.

00:34:30.936 --> 00:34:41.641
She played a role in the naming of the book and the rest of that leadership team has been the biggest group of cheerleaders, but they were also pretty skeptical to begin with.

00:34:43.266 --> 00:34:44.186
I love that story.

00:34:44.186 --> 00:34:56.293
I always love when they work their way around, because sometimes it's easier just to go back to that old style and get rid of the start to be able to work that through.

00:34:56.293 --> 00:35:11.329
Congratulations on many things, Kyle.

00:35:11.329 --> 00:35:16.789
15,000 books stories that exist of lives that you're impacting Really cool.

00:35:16.789 --> 00:35:23.010
The book has been out now by the time this podcast is re-released, right at two years, and I'm going to encourage folks to get that.

00:35:23.010 --> 00:35:27.088
We didn't get a chance to talk about all 10, but they need to buy the book to see all 10.

00:35:27.088 --> 00:35:34.007
That's just how it works the 10 wheeze and the feeling, though, that you want folks.

00:35:34.007 --> 00:35:36.652
You see these books sitting behind me, your book behind you.

00:35:36.652 --> 00:35:47.001
When they look at that book sitting on their shelf after a year or two years, what do you want them to think when they see that book behind, or after they've read your book a year later or two years later?

00:35:47.001 --> 00:35:52.590
want them to think when they see that book behind or after they've read your book a year later or two years later, there's a better way.

00:35:52.590 --> 00:35:53.932
There's a better way.

00:35:53.932 --> 00:36:03.181
We spend roughly 100,000 hours of our time on this planet doing this thing called work Behind sleep.

00:36:03.181 --> 00:36:32.918
It is the number one thing we will do, and I just believe we owe it to ourselves, we owe it to those around us, including our friends and family, to get the most out of this thing called work, that whole experience and I'm not naive, man, I'm not naive, I just can't stress it enough, man, I'm not naive, I just can't stress it enough I understand that many members of the workforce, if not the majority they have jobs.

00:36:32.918 --> 00:36:35.521
They don't have careers.

00:36:35.521 --> 00:36:40.885
They punch a clock, they got bigger things to worry about and they're only doing it because they have commitments and obligations to meet.

00:36:40.885 --> 00:36:41.967
I'm one of those people.

00:36:41.967 --> 00:36:42.586
I get it.

00:36:42.586 --> 00:36:43.509
I totally get it.

00:36:45.210 --> 00:37:14.340
However, if we focus on our work in a way that is bigger than a job and we focus on the impact we can have on those around us and I don't mean big corporate America only man, I mean, if I'm managing a sandwich shop, the members of my team, even if just one person, I have an opportunity to have an impact on their journey, their growth, their development, helping them maybe stack their wallet or stack some cash to go do something that they're passionate about.

00:37:14.340 --> 00:37:18.815
I just believe we don't have to hate our jobs.

00:37:18.815 --> 00:37:27.657
We can use them as stepping stones or building blocks to do something that gives us more reward or more passion or more fulfillment, whatever the case is for you.

00:37:27.657 --> 00:37:43.449
But if we're going to spend a hundred thousand hours of our life doing this, we should try to make the most of it, because there's no other venue in our entire lives that we're going to spend so much time and have an opportunity to have an impact to those we lead, those we serve, those that are our peers.

00:37:45.193 --> 00:37:57.992
So if you feel as if you lost in the shuffle, you're one of so many, especially in a big organization, or you're just keeping your head down to keep the bills paid, I got love for you either way, but just know you don't have to hate it.

00:37:57.992 --> 00:38:25.405
And if you do hate it and you've approached it in a way that we've discussed, like trying to see the upside, trying to have an impact, trying to find fulfillment and maybe reconnect with passion, if you're unable to do that in the role that you're in, then start looking and maybe take one or two steps backwards, to take three or four forward, but you owe it to yourself first, and then those around you second, to try to connect in a way that you feel you've had an impact.

00:38:25.405 --> 00:38:28.094
I think that's a really important way to approach what we do.

00:38:28.976 --> 00:38:30.945
Absolutely, kyle.

00:38:30.945 --> 00:38:34.295
You're as a leader and you need to continue to grow as well.

00:38:34.295 --> 00:38:35.429
You're on your journey.

00:38:35.429 --> 00:38:40.295
Still You've got a few of those 2,000-hour years left for you to go.

00:38:40.295 --> 00:38:49.931
What are one or two disciplines that you might say would be uncommon, that you use to stay out in front and continue your personal growth?

00:38:49.931 --> 00:38:53.992
Might be in leadership, might be in your health, might be in finances, faith.

00:38:53.992 --> 00:38:56.653
What are one or two disciplines you practice?

00:38:57.204 --> 00:39:06.590
Yeah, man, I would point to two things, but they well, I'd point to one thing, but it is rooted, shameless plug as it might sound, back to the 10 wheeze.

00:39:06.590 --> 00:39:11.231
So when I created the principles, they were exclusive to the workplace.

00:39:11.231 --> 00:39:15.608
This is how we behave between the hours of eight and five, nine, five, whatever it is that you work.

00:39:15.608 --> 00:39:24.018
But I realized after a handful of months, maybe even a year, that not having those same principles in everything I do makes me a hypocrite.

00:39:24.018 --> 00:39:40.175
And John, there was a day this is a true story I was at the grocery store have my grocery cart out by my truck, unloaded all my groceries, took my shopping cart and very politely left it in the parking spot next to my truck.

00:39:40.175 --> 00:39:47.438
I didn't return it to the store, I didn't return it to the place where you return grocery carts, I left it in the parking spot.

00:39:47.438 --> 00:39:49.811
Turn it to the place where you return grocery carts.

00:39:49.811 --> 00:39:56.498
I left it in the parking spot and as I pulled away, I just happened to flash up my rear view mirror and I could see that cart sitting there and I thought what a bleeping hypocrite you are.

00:39:56.498 --> 00:40:03.164
The number one principle of the 10 ways is we do the right thing always, and I knew, looking in that mirror, I hadn't done the right thing.

00:40:03.164 --> 00:40:13.614
And it was in that moment I realized these principles have a place in my life much bigger than just the workplace.

00:40:13.614 --> 00:40:23.327
So now that I've subscribed to these principles in my personal life, there's not probably more than an hour a day that goes by that I don't think of one of them, and it's usually that first one.

00:40:23.327 --> 00:40:37.885
We do the right thing always, and the impact that it's had on me to really more specifically answer your question is on my fitness, and that is getting up early, getting a good sweat, even if it's just a walk around the block, just something to get the heart pumping.

00:40:37.885 --> 00:40:50.188
The consistency required to see the results that you want to see is not unlike the consistency required to see the results you want to see in other things in life, including business, including leadership.

00:40:50.188 --> 00:40:51.530
So for me it was.

00:40:51.530 --> 00:41:01.318
I know sleeping in late and not spending time on my health is not doing the right thing, and I know I'm.

00:41:01.557 --> 00:41:04.983
One of my principles, as I mentioned, is we embrace challenge and I don't want to go.

00:41:04.983 --> 00:41:06.648
I don't want to do this every morning.

00:41:06.648 --> 00:41:12.085
I don't want to go hit the treadmill or lift weights or whatever it is that I'm supposed to do each morning.

00:41:12.085 --> 00:41:22.318
I don't want to do that, man, but I feel as if, if I'm not still connected to those principles doing the right thing, embracing challenge, taking action that I am a hypocrite.

00:41:22.318 --> 00:41:34.396
So for me, the uncommon part is is identifying a group of things, even small ones, like okay, let's be in the, let's be in the gym by 7am every morning, six, seven days a week.

00:41:34.396 --> 00:41:43.112
Sticking to that is like creating a has created a foundation for me every single day that allows me to continue to live those principles.

00:41:43.112 --> 00:41:43.916
Am I perfect at it?

00:41:43.916 --> 00:41:47.849
Absolutely not, um, and I don't know how uncommon that is, but I just.

00:41:47.889 --> 00:42:00.688
I use the fitness example as one of many that says doing hard things, things we don't want to do, things that might even be uncomfortable or awkward is really the path to fulfillment.

00:42:00.688 --> 00:42:05.226
And just like in our leadership game, there are days we don't want to go to the office.

00:42:05.226 --> 00:42:06.769
There are days we don't want to host that one-on-one.

00:42:06.769 --> 00:42:11.630
There are days we don't want to lead a focus group or a team meeting or a staff meeting, but those are the days you got to go.

00:42:11.630 --> 00:42:15.945
All right, this is what I signed up for, this is who I wanted to be.

00:42:15.945 --> 00:42:17.487
This is the impact I wanted to have.

00:42:17.487 --> 00:42:19.951
Otherwise I would just be a boss somewhere giving orders.

00:42:19.951 --> 00:42:24.094
So that, to me, is the uncommon element that I know it's a daily grind.

00:42:24.094 --> 00:42:29.461
I have to take this approach every single day, even when I don't want to, is how I approach almost everything.

00:42:29.461 --> 00:42:30.891
Now again, not perfect at it.

00:42:30.891 --> 00:42:35.831
There are days where I'm like, eh, today's not the day, but more often than not I look at these principles to help me.

00:42:35.831 --> 00:42:37.376
Kind of power through those moments.

00:42:38.105 --> 00:42:45.931
I can't keep track of all the things that just went through my head, as you said that I don't always want to be in the mode of trying to answer the question before you're done.

00:42:45.931 --> 00:42:57.342
When you start to tell a story about the shopping cart, if you get a chance to read my bio sometime, the very last line in the bio says and I live in Myrtle Beach and you've got a family.

00:42:57.342 --> 00:43:05.713
But the very last line says and you'll often see me returning shopping carts to the corral for the folks who don't put their shopping cart back.

00:43:05.713 --> 00:43:12.112
And I say that because that's the uncommon component, the extra 10 steps that are required.

00:43:12.112 --> 00:43:14.077