WEBVTT
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I gave Jason his first jersey.
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He was number 52.
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It was way too big.
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He didn't care.
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In fact there was a rumor going around school that he slept in it for both nights.
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He was pretty fired up.
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Well, the game begins, and I will say before the game, because we honored the seniors before the game.
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To see Jason embrace his parents in uniform is a memory I will always cherish.
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I mean, it brought tears to my eyes.
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So my dream was John.
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I wanted to get him in with enough time to score a basket.
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I thought if he could score a basket that would be a memory he would have for the rest of his life.
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Well, he gets in with four minutes to go.
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Hey Uncommon Leaders, welcome back.
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This is the Uncommon Leader Podcast.
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I'm your host, john Gallagher.
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What's March Madness?
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And who better to have on during March Madness but a successful basketball coach and a great leader?
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That's what the Uncommon Leader is all about.
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I've got Coach Jim Johnson today to add some value to you listeners in tying basketball coaching and business leadership together in a way that I think is going to be very inspirational for you.
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Just a little bit of background about Coach.
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In his 20-year coaching career he had 428 victories, turned three teams around.
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If I said that wrong, he's probably going to have that 428.
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He's turned three teams around as we go forward, transforming losing teams into champions, and he's got a special story that's coming up on 20 years that we'll talk about the J-Mac story.
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Many of you who are listeners and know me when you're a sports fan, you're going to recognize this story.
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But we're going to get a chance to talk about his seven leadership keys that he now shares with other leaders and businesses to help them grow.
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Coach Johnson, it's great to have you on the Uncommon Leader Podcast.
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How are you doing today?
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Thank you, John.
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Yeah, I will say I appreciate that, but I did coach.
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I was a head coach for 30 years 30 years, okay, 30 years.
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I coached for 35, two years in college and 33 in the high school.
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I was trying to get you a better average wins per year.
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Yeah, so that was a lot of wins In fact I'd be pretty proud of 20 years, over 400 wins.
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Well, it takes a little while to turn them around and then get to that 25 win number every year.
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All right, so I'll give you that.
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So let's start this.
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We're recording this on day one of the NCAA basketball tournament getting started, better known as March Madness.
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So before I even jump in, like the leaders, do you play a bracket?
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I have again this year.
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I used to be really big into it.
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I'm not quite as big since I've been out of coaching, although obviously I still love basketball.
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It's always such an exciting time of the year because the hard part is I've never been great with the brackets because I always pick some upsets, but it seems like I pick the wrong ones.
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It's a tricky thing.
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For sure, it's important to get those 512s right.
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There's usually always one or two each year.
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Go ahead and share it so we can put the money on it.
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I'll get the podcast out before the end.
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Who you got going all the way?
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Florida.
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Florida.
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Yeah, they're playing pretty good, all right, excellent.
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Well, I'm glad you shared that and I know we're missing the start of this thing, but we'll have a great interview as part of that and then get a chance to watch some basketball today.
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So I want to ask you the same first question, outside of our basketball interest, but the same question I always ask my first time guests, and if you would tell us a story from your childhood that still impacts who you are today as a person or as a leader.
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Well, you know, it's interesting because I have a lot of different you know positive and some challenging as a child, but one that sticks out to me was I'm the oldest of six and I have my next.
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Two are both brothers and we were pretty darn competitive.
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My dad was actually my high school coach, so he loves sports as well and we're on the backyard, but we funny is that I was mostly in the team sports, but I was actually a pretty good runner too.
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And when my brother and I were challenging each other about running around the block and he went first and I timed him and then I went second and he was supposed to time me.
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Well, I came back and I I knew I beat him.
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I was puffing and huffing and puffing and uh, he didn't time me on purpose.
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Oh, I started running after him and my next brother went in and my grandmother was there because my mother was out someplace and she goes.
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He, my youngest brother, or younger brother at the time, said uh, grammy, I think you might want to know this, but uh, jim is ready to kill tom, and uh, so, uh, that's not the only time we've competed over the years, but uh, I think it did bring my nature out that I'm a pretty darn competitive person still to this day.
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Well, you spent 30 years in coaching, so you had to go through a lot of experiences as well in that competitive side.
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And again, 428 wins that comes along with a few losses as well.
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In terms of going through that journey as a coach, was there any one win that kind of stuck out to you?
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That was just really powerful.
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I ain't asking the J-Mac story yet.
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Give me a story like yeah, it was about you and your team.
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That really sticks out.
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Well, certainly the J-Mac night, and I won't delve into it right this moment, but it was the greatest night I ever had in coaching, so I'm not going to lie to you and say that it was not.
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I think the greatest win that I'm most proud of is my second to last year.
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It was the best team we ever had and we played in a tournament.
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We're in upstate New York, it was in downstate Westchester and we played Iona Prep.
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It's a small private school and they were tremendous.
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They had two 6'10 kids.
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John and I coached for 30 years.
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I never had a 6'10 kid ever.
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They had two that didn't even play.
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They were just on the bench.
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But their starting center was the New York State player of the year and he actually has dabbledled.
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He's played some in the nba and their second best player at the time was a junior named ty jerome that actually plays for the cavaliers right now.
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So they had two guys that actually played in the nba, uh, and we beat them and that was probably the greatest win we we ever had.
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Uh, as far as my, I mean, I had a lot of certainly great wins and all that, but just uh, the fact that I I I know I never other coached against another team that had two NBA players on their team.
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I bet not.
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And two 6'10 guys on the bench Goodness gracious, holy cow, that's definitely a team that would be a huge win, no doubt about it.
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I mean, I played in high school and we had some big wins on the way to a state championship my senior year.
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But I don't know that we ever experienced that with regards to two NBA players and two 6'10 guys and having that win.
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That's pretty cool.
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I'd love the overlap between sports and leadership and you think about some of those lessons and we're going to get into your seven keys here in just a little bit but some of those memories have got to be those moments that are not even basketball-related for you and the leadership, especially coaching high school kids.
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What was it that was most rewarding for you inside of that space of the leadership and sports that you continue to find value in today?
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Well, the two things is one is really, you know, as I became better and became, I think, a better leader is really focusing on building relationships, and that's the power.
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And then just the other thing you know I'm a pretty driven guy and you know I'm really into goals and I spent a lot of time working with our players on both our team and individual goals.
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But when you could get a group of young men to work together and do more than they think they can, to me that was like the greatest feeling in the world, you know, is that you know, when you got them and it's interesting because you know, some of my best teams, talent wise, didn't, in my opinion, reach their full potential.
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And then there was a few other teams where, you know, I didn't think they were going to be really that good and they just exceeded, and it just had so much to do with building that chemistry and them getting to believe in each other and care about each other.
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And, you know, caring about we over me, which is something we, you know, emphasize pretty much every day.
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We over me love that as well.
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I mean, I think again, those relationships are so important.
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I know that some of the ones that I had especially early on in my journey after I left high school, those are the ones that kind of stick around from a memory standpoint and again, unfortunately, sometimes you remember the losses even more difficult than the wins.
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I mean, again, you got 30 seasons under your belt.
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My senior year in high school.
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We were 25 and one.
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We won the state championship and surely the first question that we always get when we talk about it is well, who did you lose to?
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I can go back to the Fairmont West game that we lost by one point when we were down nine with 60 seconds left, and I just happened to miss a layup with about three minutes left in the game wide open layups.
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So yeah, those are the kind of things you ever remember.
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But they shape you as a leader, Not that it ever really was that important.
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Those on YouTube that's actually a picture Well, you can't see it off my head but me standing there as a senior in high school and so I still have some of those memories that exist in a team photo around here somewhere that team but those memories stick with you for a long time.
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You have 30 years of those memories in the coaching world, plus that time that you were competitive, as you say, as an athlete yourself as well, and you've ultimately brought that together now into what you refer to, as are your seven keys to leadership that are for business leaders as well as those in sports.
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While we won't have a chance to talk about all seven of those, maybe if you could just outline what they are and then ultimately really talk about how you got to those keys Was it over your coaching time or how did you get to them?
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Yeah, so I'll start with a quick story, just to give you context.
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So my dream when I got out of college was to I wanted to be a teacher and I wanted to be a varsity basketball coach.
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And at 25 years old, that dream came true after only three years as an assistant coach and I took over a program that wasn't very good, but in my mind I was going to take them from the outhouse to the penthouse in the first season, right?
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Well, in that, John, I led that team to 17 consecutive losses and then I was in an interim position and they did not renew my contract.
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In other words, I was fired, and it was a pretty humbling experience.
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But it probably ended up being the best professional experience for me from a negative standpoint, because it woke up a young, arrogant 25-year-old that realized that he had a lot to learn how to be a leader and a coach.
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And so that's when I really started my journey of studying leadership and, you know, did a lot of reading, went to a lot of clinics and conferences and picked different people's brains and listened to a lot of audio programs.
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Back then there were cassette tapes and all that Jim Rohns and all of them, and so I.
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So it was just really, as I continue to, to grow, I really want to establish some structure, you know cause I think great leaders develop processes and systems that you know people can get used to, and that's something I think we get.
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We really did much better and our players really appreciated it.
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So these were the seven keys, and then we can delve into one or two of them, whatever, but clarifying your vision, which I talk about how to lead yourself first before you can lead others.
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Number two is building trust.
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Number three is called creating an edge.
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Number four is effective communication.
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Five is one that is pretty obvious, but, boy, I found a lot of leaders don't do this very well, and that's lead by example.
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Number six is my leadership philosophy, which I call leaving a profit.
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And then number seven is something I really built into as I learned more about it and now it's gotten pretty big in leadership and that servant leadership.
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Excellent those seven keys.
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And now it's gotten pretty big in leadership and that servant leadership Excellent those seven keys.
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And I think about looking back all those things that led you to those seven keys.
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And look, 25-year-old firstly, in his first head coaching position.
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I look at my sons now and I look back at my time as a 25-year-old.
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I can't imagine leading that varsity team that early.
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There are some that are able to do that, but it's usually that learning experience that comes into play and I heard a little bit of that pride that's in there.
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What are some of the other barriers?
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Before we jump into maybe one or two of your keys?
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But what are some of the barriers that leaders have, like pride, that keep them from being successful?
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Well, it's a really powerful thing because, you know, I've talked about different things, but one thing that jumps out to me is that I, when I became I kid people that as a leader you got to be the CQA, the chief question asker, and you know, when I started to come in with that perspective, that I was going to ask more questions.
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But then the other part about leading is taking the time to listen.
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You know, and you know the famous Stephen Covey seek first to understand before being understood and then really understanding.
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This is easy to say, but as a leader I think it's very difficult.
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But I believe the best leaders are finding the best answers to solve the problems not necessarily their answers and, again, easy to say.
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But you know, we all as leaders and all people have an ego to some degree and usually when you get a leadership position, you have maybe even a bigger ego.
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A bigger ego you can really start to to say you know that famous we over me that I mentioned earlier is that, you know, and really getting uh impact, like one of the things.
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Uh, we did a captain's meeting every week and and it was always on mondays unless we had a game which was rare and early on.
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John, I always would come in with an agenda, but it was all about me.
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And then, probably the last half of my career, I came in with an agenda, but it was all about me.
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And then probably the last half of my career I came in with the agenda was just questions and questions like hey, how's our team chemistry this week?
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You know, what do you think we should focus on to be better this week?
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How can I coach you better?
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Is there any player right now on the team that we should be made aware of, this struggling, that we can help out this week?
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You know, so, just and boy, the captains really took ownership and you know, I think that spread throughout the whole team.
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The coach wanted to know about you and wanted to get your input.
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And the other thing I think is really clear I did a lot of one-on-ones and one of the things I always told our players is I want to hear from you.
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I'm not going to always agree with you, and when I don't agree with you, I'm going to share why.
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And you may not like that, but at least you know where I'm coming from.
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Because I think the breakdown in communication is when people don't do that.
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It's just my way or the highway.
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Well, that doesn't go over very well, especially with young people.
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Hey listeners, I want to take a quick.
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Many of the topics and discussions we have on this podcast are areas where I provide coaching and consulting services for individuals and organizations.
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If you've been inspired by our conversation and are seeking a catalyst for change in your own life or within your team, I invite you to visit coachjohngallaghercom forward slash free call to sign up for a free coaching call with me.
00:15:28.923 --> 00:15:37.001
It's an opportunity for us to connect, discuss your unique challenges and explore how coaching or consulting can benefit you and your team.
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Okay, let's get back to the show.
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Well, absolutely, and again, even as you're seeing, with the title of head coach or the title of leader, that's the first level that we go through.
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John Maxwell talks about levels of leadership, five levels and he says the first one is position and people follow you because they have to.
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Now, you talked about this with regards to relationships, and leading by example is that you want to move to permission.
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Ultimately is players.
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I mean they want to know why am I not playing, why am I not good enough to be in the starting five?
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And you have to learn to have candor with them, to let them know what that is, but to also know that you have a very important role to play on the team Leads into me.
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One of the keys that I wanted to ask you about we talked about this before getting started was trust, and you talk about this intentional trust plan that you put together.
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Tell me a little bit more about that key, the intentional trust plan.
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Yeah, well, I'm just going to say one thing.
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The two C's is I built a basketball program that I think is really important, is caring and challenging, and I think when you can combine those two, which will lead into my answer to the trust.
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So, as I mentioned, I struggled my first opportunity to be a varsity coach, but I had three other opportunities In my last 27 years.
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I coached in my hometown at two of the high schools.
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I actually went to the other high school so I kind of hit a ball, and when we took over all those programs, they had all been not doing well, and so one of the things I really figured out and I really shared with our staff is we got to build trust with our players because we're a new group coming in.
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And how do we do that?
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And so we came up with three keys to building trust.
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The first one is we had to consistently align our words and actions.
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And I'll tell you a little side story.
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That was very powerful for me Because you know, going to that other key about leading by example, well, coach, was one of the things we mandated for most of our career is that we, on the road, we were going to wear shirt and ties.
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Well, I didn't love wearing shirt and ties myself, so one time I choose not to, and all of my players, and I'll never forget one of my parents saying hey, coach, how come all the players got to wear shirt?
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and tie.
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You don't, and that was a really good thing for me to, because after that coach wears shirt and tie the rest of his career.
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If I was an assistant of players, and that's the power of example, example, I think, is really important.
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The first one is aligning your words and actions.
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Like one of the things I talk to leaders about is I think you should have a few non-negotiables, but you can't have like 100 rules, Because if you have 100 rules you have no rules.
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But one of our non-negotiables is we expected our players to be on time.
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So if I said that practice was started, sometimes I did funky things like we'd start practice at 2.17 because I really wanted to make sure that they were on time and I always would kid them that if you can't be on time, be early.
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Those are your choices and so, with that, that's what you know.
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But as myself, you could ask all the players that coach never came late for practice, never came late for a meeting, because that was that important to me.
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So aligning your words and actions is so important.
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Number two is I think if you're going to build trust, you have to have the foundation of telling each other the truth, and you know, one thing I will say that in leadership as an art and science is there are times where I think you can call out a player.
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Going back to what we talked, john, about, building relationships, where some players can take some harsh criticism in front of the team and it's very helpful.
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But getting to know your players some of them don't do very well with that and that's why you got to get to know your players, because there's sometimes you got to do that behind closed doors, but we really focused on telling each other the truth.
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And then the third thing was is that you know we took over programs that hadn't been doing well?
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Is that we really came in with a mindset that we wanted to catch our players doing well and specifically praising them.
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And I always give an example, like, instead of saying nice job, johnny, because I was a boys basketball coach, we want to be more specific.
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I might say something like Johnny, that was awesome how you dove on the floor for that loose ball.
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That's what championship players do on championship teams.
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So he has some clarity.
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He's being praised, but he knows exactly why he got praised.
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Love that and I love that as an example as well, being specific about that feedback.
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Love that, and I love that as an example as well.
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Being specific about that feedback.
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I actually, when I listen to hear you tell them the truth and you do that, especially when it's tough feedback in private as well, behind closed doors I love that.
00:20:21.526 --> 00:20:24.394
And certainly, aligning words and actions, no doubt about it.
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As the leader, things are caught and not taught and they will absolutely let you know if you're stepping outside, which back to telling the truth.
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Those three things together, they all work well.
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I love that as a trust plan.
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Those three steps seem very simple and to your point in terms of where we got.
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In terms of those seven keys.
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Those relate to business or, frankly, they relate to life.
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There's no doubt about it in terms of that trust plan in your family, in your family.
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Align our words and actions, tell the truth.
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You'll be on time.
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Ultimately, get those three things done Right.
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I mean, it really is that simple and it can be that difficult.
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Have you coach, have you had, uh influencers as you develop these keys, uh in your career, uh, who have made a difference for you, whether it's, you know, other coaches or authors or speakers.
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Who's influenced you?
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So the two that and I never met either one of them and I will tell you a little bit about you know one person that did that I worked with, but the two that influenced me from afar but I studied them immensely, was the late John Wooden and the late Jim Rome.
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So there was a personal growth guy and then you know a famous basketball coach.
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But, I read and listened to all the things I could possibly learn about them, because you know what it's been fascinating, because I still do it today, John, I'm fascinated what makes people great, and I study it all the time and you know what are the separators.
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Then two people I did get to meet one's still coaching and he's kind of rejuvenated his career at St John's.
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That's Rick Pitino.
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I saw him speak at a basketball clinic in Rochester where I grew up, and he was just mesmerizing on how impactful he was.
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And then I went and watched him practice at Providence and then I actually went to Kentucky when he was there and so I really followed his career.
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And it was just kind of a connection, was that when I, after I lost my first varsity job, I got called by a local junior college coach and he was a tough guy but I learned a lot from him.
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His name was Bill Van Gundy and the crazy thing is John, both his sons, Stan and Jeff, have been head coaches in the NBA numerous times.
00:22:35.410 --> 00:22:41.563
So it was amazing because when I was coaching with Coach Van Gundy, I was 26, and Stan is my age.
00:22:41.563 --> 00:22:55.241
He was a college coach, a Division III coach, and Jeff had just taken a high school job, so I think Coach Van Gundy really helped me get back on my feet after that stumble in my first varsity position.
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Love that, even having folks there to pick you up when you stumble, because I mean, especially frankly in coaching, it's going to happen In coaching and leadership you're going to have tough times.
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You're going to go through times or spaces where things aren't going your way and, to your point, sometimes the best thing that can happen to you is to be asked to go and coach somewhere else or to go lead somewhere else, whatever that means in terms of change, and if you can take the right perspective on that can be really powerful.
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I mean, again, patino made his mistakes in his personal life as well, but look what he's gone through in the coaching world.
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I mean NBA just recently Iona, st John's, providence, kentucky, louisville.
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Goodness gracious that guy's still around.
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Coach, when are you going to get the phone call to come?
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back.
