Uncovering Core Values: Creating a Positive Culture in the Workplace - Craig Gini

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey, uncommon Leaders, welcome back. This is the Uncommon Leader podcast and I'm your host, john Gallagher. On this episode of the Uncommon Leader podcast, I'm joined by Craig Genie, the Chief Transformation Officer at Collins Electrical and Stockton, california. I've been fortunate enough to work with Craig the past couple of years as an executive coach and performance consultant, helping him and Collins Electric to deploy Lean, or the Collins Business System, as they have dubbed it, throughout their organization. Craig's leadership development journey is one that many leaders need to hear. Our discussion will provide valuable insights on feedback, leadership, personal development, creating a positive work culture within organizations and more. With the expertise, experiences and stories that Craig shares, listeners will gain practical strategies for becoming Uncommon Leaders in their own lives and careers. Let's get started. Craig Genie, welcome to the Uncommon Leader podcast. It's great to have you as a guest on the show today. How are you doing, my friend?

Speaker 2: 1:02

I am doing fantastic. Thank you, looking forward to our conversation.

Speaker 1: 1:05

buddy, I think there's some really good things you're going to have to offer our listeners as you talk about your leadership journey. It's going to be pretty cool.

Speaker 2: 1:15

I appreciate that. I just want to say, starting off of, I listened to your podcast. You know that I read your champions Brew religiously on Fridays as part of my standard work. Just to say thank you. It helps me keep my head straight on just new thoughts to think about throughout the week, gives me a good lighthouse to focus on. So thank you for that. I truly appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 1:39

Craig, I appreciate that I didn't even pay you to say that to get started. You didn't I appreciate you starting out with that right off the bat. But I'll turn it around to you and give you the question that I always gave my first-time guests on the podcast. Sure, that's for you to tell our listeners. It's really about your personal development journey from way back, a story from your childhood that may still impact who you are today as a leader and as a person.

Speaker 2: 2:02

Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, that's actually a great question Kind of goes to the psychology of things, at least for me, and probably the most impactful event. As I look back on my life, one of the most impactful events that happened to me was probably somewhere around 10 to 11 years old and I was in middle school. There was a young kid that everybody in our school wanted to be friends with. His family was kind of well-respected and everybody wanted to be this guy's friend and I was lucky enough at one point in time to be able to be riding bikes with him and we were heading back to his house and he stopped and it's so funny, you remember the details right in front of this beautiful green lawn before his driveway and he turned to me and he said hey, you can't come into my house. And I said well, why is that? And he said my mom said you cuss too much and you can't come into our house. And at that moment in time that had such a profound impact into my 50s. The shame sorry, I get emotional about it right now even the shame that you feel about that because somebody's making a judgment about you. I felt as though I was from the wrong side of the tracks and so you start to associate meetings to that kind of traumatic experience. That isn't really true. But you made that up and I made that up for myself, that I'm from the wrong side of the tracks and I lived with that for decades and it manifested itself over the time over time in positive and negative ways. And here's the interesting thing about those traumatic experiences is that if you look back later on in your life, there was a purpose to that and the purpose for that event was it drove me to want to prove them wrong. That was the fire in my belly to say no, I'm not from the wrong side of the track, even though it was a little bit in my head saying you are. I then wanted I got into modeling when I was 17 years old. I moved to Los Angeles to become an actor when I was 19 years old because I was going to prove to them I was somebody. And as I look back at my life today and it took me to my early to mid fifties to come to grips with it, to to allow forgiveness to take over, not just for the mom, because she was doing what she needed to do, for what she thought she needed to do for her child at that time, not for myself for judging myself in that manner for 30, 40, 40 years. So there's a lot of forgiveness. That had to happen. But if that didn't happen, I wouldn't be where I'm at today, because it drove me, it created the fire for me to be who and what I am today, and I I like who I am. So I appreciate you letting me share that, that experience. But yeah, the point to that is is be careful in judging those experiences as being bad, because one of my favorite quotes from Napoleon Hill is every obstacle has within it a seed of equal or greater benefit. And, as you can tell, I memorized that bad boy Because when I heard that it made an impact in it that also influenced my life. So that's how, I'm sure of that.

Speaker 1: 5:30

That's a fantastic story and one that, when you think about that, has stuck with you that for that long and has driven you and has brought that burn. That's how those things happen inside of us. They happen at a very young age as you go forward, and I love the perspective that you're talking about with regards to every negative situation. In some way, shape or form is a learning opportunity as well, and what am I? learning for that opportunity. For me as an individual, I gotta tell you, I feel a lot like it took me a long time to have that perspective. I held on to things for a long time as well as a kid and really probably as an adult also that really I held on to too long. And then the last thing on that is I think about it, as you said in terms of forgiveness that relies on that space is that it's important for us to also, in essence, forgive yourself and forgive them as well, regardless of the conversation that comes afterwards, so to speak. So I think that says a lot about your maturity as you've gone through that. I do appreciate you as well talking about your journey and the modeling and acting and that type of piece and getting into ultimately getting into what has been a family business that's gone on for a while. You and your two brothers are the owners of Collins Electrical. Your dad is the chairman of the board and it's a family business that's been around for a hundred years. You've been on quite a journey with them, even in the time that you've been with them, and as we shift from kind of your personal story and how that drives you today, how that burn inside of you drives you. Today we get a chance to talk about your leadership journey. You and I have known each other for about two years now and what that means. So, as I introduced you at the start, you were the chief transformation officer for Collins Electrical. Tell our listeners what really is under your area of responsibility that makes you the chief transformation officer cause. That can be a lot of different things to a lot of different.

Speaker 2: 7:30

I was hoping you were gonna say what is a chief transformation officer and I was gonna go. I have no idea.

Speaker 1: 7:35

That's okay, that might be part of it as well. We might have made up a pretty good.

Speaker 2: 7:39

That's part of the beauty of it. You know it's not truly defined at this point in time. It is. We have certain aspects that I am responsible and I take great pride in being responsible for. One is we're on our lean journey, which is, I think we're four and a half years into our lean journey. So I and we have branded that in our company as our Collins business system, or CBS. So one of my main priorities and functions is to help to integrate CBS throughout our five branches within our company. That is probably one of the bigger aspects that take my focus. And then the two other things that I think run hand in hand and they are close to my heart. I'm very much a heart person, so it means a lot to me. The core values making sure that we've taken time to think about our core values. What are the drivers of who we want to become? To put definitions that we aspire to, certain definitions of those core values and then to attribute behaviors to those core values, and to me that's the foundation of creating culture within our company. All of that is what's the purpose for us to be here, and if it's just to make money, if it's just to come to work and pay the bills. That's one thing, and that's a level of life that I don't want to participate in. I want to have a purpose. I want our people to feel that they have a purpose. I want our people to feel great when they come to work, that, hey, I'm working towards something that can even fulfill my outside of work life. So it comes down to the three elements for me, which is CBS, core values and culture. So it's been a journey and I've enjoyed it.

Speaker 1: 9:41

Did you know that many of the things that I discussed on the Uncommon Leader podcast are subjects that I coach other leaders and organizations on? If you would be interested in having me discuss one-on-one or group coaching with you or know someone who is looking to move from underperforming to uncommon in their business or life, I would love to chat with you. Click the link in the show notes to set up a free call to discuss how coaching might benefit you and your team. Now back to the show, and it is a journey right in terms of that space. I mean, as you define that, cbs, deploying the Collins Business System through your organization, instilling the core values, defining the aspirations, who you want to be as an organization and who you want your leaders to be inside the company. And then the culture side of that, which we know that without the right culture, regardless of the business model that we have, it's gonna be very difficult to have a sustainable business. The fact that you've done that for 100 years now as an organization says that you've got a culture that's pretty strong and makes that happen. Having said that, those types of things don't necessarily have the accountability for the business results. You have to use influence in your work that you have. You have to use your leadership abilities to instill that in individuals, and that's been a big change for you. You had responsibility for, in essence, building your renewables business inside of your organization for a number of years and that was measured by revenue and profit. That's how you measure success inside of that space, and now that's not as clear. So you're working less in the business on a daily basis and working on the business For you and your development. What's been kind of the biggest challenge for you as you've made that transition and working in the business to working on the business from an influential standpoint.

Speaker 2: 11:28

Yep, I appreciate that question and it's something both myself and my brothers have had to go through as well, because when we made that decision to pull ourselves out of being in the business, my oldest brother, kevin, who was one of the co-CEOs, was the first to pull out of the business completely. I was the second, and then my middle brother, brian, who's the other co-CEO, has just transitioned in this January, and I think the biggest issue that all of us face is obstacle. That we face is hey, I knew my value when I was working in the business because it showed up on our ballot sheet at the end of our financial statements. At the end this is what your branch did, this is what your branch did, and we can quantify our input and our benefit to the company. So now, when you pull yourself out of that position, there's a bit of your self-worth that takes a bit of a beating because you're not able to point to something concrete. It's more like we always joke around saying it's like trying to grasp liquid soap in water. You can see it, but you can't really grab ahold of it. So number one is being okay with the fact that I still bring benefit, but it's not in the same way. It's in a different way. I still have value, because you start to make value judgments on yourself as to am I really bringing the value as an owner to the company in this position, and you have to be okay with that. So I would say that both Brian Kevin and I have had some time where we really had to get comfortable with changing our perspective as to what value we bring to the company, so that has been my personal greatest obstacle.

Speaker 1: 13:19

Well, I have so enjoyed and I think that I hope that's the right word, because I know it's not been easy. It wouldn't be easy for any leader to make that transition from being in the business to working on the business, but I love how you all have embraced it. It hasn't been smooth, it's been bumpy, and we're still not there yet to your point. We still are on this journey of developing ourselves, but what this has required you to do as well is to develop the next generation of leaders at Collins Electrical. That in and of itself, has been a huge transition where you all have had to, in essence, delegate the responsibility for running the business, and it's not something that you're used to. So what's that part of it felt like having to, in essence, delegate that responsibility to others and grow them? It's been what's been challenging and fruitful for you in both ways in that space.

Speaker 2: 14:11

Let's see what is her name. I just when you said that I keep thinking of the song Jesus, take the Wheel, gary Underwood, gary Underwood, yeah, it's an absolute level of oh my God, I'm taking my hands off the wheel. It's scary, you know it's. I hope somebody's driving this thing because we are we are very involved in our business. So to now pull yourself out, you've got to have a level of trust in the people that you work with, and you also have to have a level of trust in your ability to lead them, and that helps to raise you up. One of the things you think about when you start to get out of the being in the business is hey, I was, people mentored me and they gave me opportunities to learn, to rise and to push myself. You know the knife against the stone to sharpen my blade. And now, when you move to working on the business, it's a clear delineation of it's time for me to do that for other people now. And so that's where it's moved into. Yes, you've got to take your hands off the wheel, but you've got to trust that now I'm going to help others reach their goals, and so there's a there's an uplifting feeling to that too, with that uneasiness, I think you should always be a little bit uncomfortable. It's, it's. You've always got to be a bit uncomfortable, as you've always said, you got to sit in that seat a little like ooh gosh, that's uncomfortable.

Speaker 1: 15:40

Yeah, we don't have that seat. But I mean, if it moves you around a little bit, you're like, ah, that that means we're probably going in the right direction. If you're just leaning back and saying, no problem, shoot, you know, it's the old, anybody can do that kind of thing, and you might as well check out and just go. You know, buy a boat and and sail for the rest of your life and that's that's what you all want, because there's a. There's a level of impact, not only from a business standpoint but from a legacy standpoint, that you know the three of you and your dad are trying to leave inside of this world if you will not just the world of Collins electrical although that's your main focus is the 300 or 400 plus employees at Collins electric, to make sure they've got something there that they can hold on to as well when you think about that transition. So you've moved from in essence to doing the business to developing those to run the business. Let's get a little bit real, tactical here. What are some of the disciplines that you've had to put in place for your own development to make you a better leader? You know we refer to it sometimes as the leader standard work, but what are some of the daily or weekly disciplines that you're working to do to become more successful at growing others?

Speaker 2: 16:50

Well, I used to watch my brother do this and I you have a phrase that you've coined and I always used to say be a thief. But you told me a different one, which is swipe, just deal with integrity, practically everything. I watched my brother do something called, and I called it butterfly, walking around everybody. Hey, how you doing, how you doing Making touches, and so when I moved here, it was very important for me to make touches with everybody two to three times, four times a week, and it's them understanding that you know, there are some owners that are very untouchable. We're not like that. We don't want that in any way, shape or form. I want to know the people that I work with. I want to. When I go to them, I make it a point to look them in the eyes and we do a little fist bump. That's my thing. I do a fist bump, but it's looking in the eyes. You can do a fist bump and then walk away, but when you look somebody in the eye and you touch, there's an energy that's transferred. So that's one of the things that I do. I try to do, at least here in our corporate office, and when we go to some of our other branches. I go to see everybody in the office. It's always, it's non-negotiable you need to say hello to everybody, find out how they're doing so. That's one thing.

Speaker 1: 18:08

I love that the butterfly.

Speaker 2: 18:09

Love that. Yeah, you saw it. It's up on my wall where it says butterfly on my leader, standard work, Some of the other things. Boy, that just kind of caught me off guard a little bit. Some of the other leaders.

Speaker 1: 18:21

Well, here's one of the ones that we've talked about. Just in thinking, and you and I, we actually talk about this on a regular basis. You used to call it your. I think it was your visioning time.

Speaker 2: 18:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah, my magic board time.

Speaker 1: 18:33

My magic board and one of the things that we really have was. I believe personally in development that purposeful reflection leads to purposeful results in terms of what you're going through it, and so you've often used it as contemplation. Why is reflection important to you?

Speaker 2: 18:51

Thank you for bringing that up, because I thought about that beforehand. But then when your mind gets going, I lose it, my mind. Contemplation time is very important because of the fact that we're constantly dealing with fires every single day, and that is typically not purposeful in the development of a department or development of a culture in a company. It's really not purposeful. But when you sit down and you allow yourself to ruminate over what is the type of leader that I want to be, if that is a type of leader I want to be, what are the steps that I have to take to become that leader? And then we start to say when am I going to start taking those steps? So the contemplation time starts to. Everything starts with a dream in my mind. If you're gonna do anything breakthrough, if you're gonna do anything great, you have to think greater than your environment, and so that gives you the time and the space to think greater than your environment of how, if I wanted this to be a world class, whatever, what would it take for me to do that? It gives you that time to ruminate, gives you that time to get the emotions going of what it would feel like, and then you start to manifest it through your action. So that's why I love contemplation time.

Speaker 1: 20:09

I think it's one of the I believe, as I've observed you, greg, in your development as one of the disciplines that's been instrumental for you and, as you and I have talked about on a regular basis, it's one of those until we having faith that it's powerful, until we actually do it, we don't necessarily know the power of purpose. Full reflection time. Blocking out 15 minutes in our calendar a week to say what's gone well this week and what could have gone better. Blocking out time on your calendar to say what do I need to do differently going forward? How could I have handled that situation differently? So I've appreciated how you've picked up that habit and recognize the importance of it in your own personal development. Oftentimes, as I've talked to other leaders, it's real easy, as we start to look at these fires, to start to think about you know all the problems that others have faced, if you will.

Speaker 2: 21:04

Okay.

Speaker 1: 21:05

And really as leaders, when we reflect and we look internally and say what part of the problem am I? That's where we can start to really grow as a leader.

Speaker 2: 21:13

Maybe the one not just gonna, I'm just gonna poke and jog your memory on one tool that we've that we've used a lot.

Speaker 1: 21:18

that's been helpful for you, especially in the deployment of the values in the organization, and that's SBI situation behavior.

Speaker 2: 21:26

How does that help you in giving and receiving feedback Of that SBI situation behavior, impact and action. So we talk about nice versus kind, and that really clarified things for me. Nice is hey, I'm not gonna say this to you because it's gonna make you uncomfortable and it's gonna make me uncomfortable and that lets everybody off the hook. Kind is I'm gonna be nice about what I'm saying, but I'm also gonna hold you accountable and I owe it to you to hold you accountable Right. So what that does is that allows you to stay focused. We know that when you have to give somebody feedback or you know you've got to have a discussion, that's difficult. It keeps you focused on what's important so that you don't get away from from dealing with the issue. It is. Here's the situation that I noticed. Here's the behavior that was exhibited that is not acceptable or is acceptable. You can use it for positive or negative feedback, either way. Here's the impact you had on us as a group, on me personally, and here's the impact it had on you those behaviors that you exhibited and then you finally come to the action line, which is in the future, in this situation again, I'm gonna need you to behave this way. So you're going through, and the goal is not to shame anybody. The goal is to simply say very concretely here's how you can improve. Here's the situation, here's the behavior that you're very aware of and here's the impact that it had. Usually, the impact is the thing that drives somebody to change. Wow, I impacted other people in that manner because of my behavior. I have a path forward. Here's the actions that I know that I need to take in the future for that. So I've used it many times. It's very impactful. It helps other people who may not be receiving the feedback in an open manner. Sometimes they'll say, yeah, but what about so-and-so? What about so-and-so? It brings us back to. If you want to talk about that later, we can, but for you, we're talking about your specific behavior in this situation and the impact you had. So it's always the ability to bring them back to center of the issue that we're discussing.

Speaker 1: 23:52

And I love how you've correlated that tool with the kind and nice, like being nice to say, hey, come on, man, I don't want you to do that anymore. But being kind is look, this is what I observed and it impacted us. It impacted you. We need to again either change that or, to your point about positive, do that more Absolutely. I appreciate that you've done that.

Speaker 2: 24:15

And then the key to that, the finishing it off portion, probably is tying it to our core values and the respect for people of listen. The impact you had obviously shows that there was a bit of a lack of respect for your coworkers or whoever it is, and we really need you to understand that, and that's why this action needs to be taken.

Speaker 1: 24:37

You know it's interesting. So let's go all the way back to your story, craig. So I didn't know your story at the start, the 10 or 11 year old. And going back through that, of the seven core values at Collins Electric, I don't think there's any doubt the one that you really have a burn for is respect for people, and maybe that's tied back to that story as well in terms of how they go on. But what is it about that core value that just really burns inside of you and why it's so?

Speaker 2: 25:01

important. There's two of them and they're in hand and hand to me Integrity and respect for people. I made it a point at a certain point in my life to live my life in a certain manner and integrity. You know, I think I let my integrity go at times in my life and it made me not feel as though I was kind of a man. It did make me feel good about myself and I made a decision saying wait, I want to be an integrity based human being and spirit and you can't do that without being having a respect for people. You can't walk through life and have an integrity and not have respect for people. I love people. I love the fact that we're so different. We're individuals and that's what makes us special and you've got to respect that. When I had my own department, I used to tell our people you guys have quirks, such crazy quirks, but I love you for every single one of your quirks. You drive me crazy with your quirks, but it's because you have those quirks that I love you and it's just that respect for who they are as a human being, and it's the same thing we all want. I'm trying to give what I want myself and that's why it burns for me. That's why it's a passion for me.

Speaker 1: 26:17

Thank you for sharing that. I know it does. I can tell when I'm with you and when I talk with you. That that's one of those things, Craig. That's been really cool to talk about your journey as a leadership. I want the listeners to get a chance to learn about you a little bit more, so let's have some fun. I said, okay if I ask you some questions. Anybody didn't tell you I was going to pull out for you. That'll just be fun, that won't be anything bad. So let's go back to April 2002. You really started as the GM, for it turned into renewables or turned into solar in terms of going through that, but responsible for business at Collins Electric. Go back those 20-plus years and you get to see that Craig Genie sitting in that chair kind of learn in the business. What's a piece of advice that you're going to give him now that you've been on this journey for 20-plus years?

Speaker 2: 27:06

It's the thing that I tell a lot of people that are coming up right now this too shall change and you've got to go through it. If you want to feel confident in yourself, you've got to go through the fire. But remember, this too shall change. When you are down and you feel like you're ready to quit, I promise you it's going to change and when you're feeling high on top of the world, this too shall change. So just remember you've got to go through it. But the thing that will help you is just remember it's not forever and you are going to come out so far ahead just because you've done it. Love that.

Speaker 1: 27:47

Love that, craig. What accomplishment are you most proud of?

Speaker 2: 27:52

Wow, wow. That is not something that I thought you would. That's not even something I thought about. I think, if I think about it from business standpoint, I'm proud of the fact that I had the courage to lead with my heart. When you're first starting off, you're trying to prove yourself and you're trying to be a hard ass, you're trying to do whatever you do and you're in a construction field where guys are rough and tumble, at a certain point in time I said I've got to be me and I've got to lead with my heart, because that's the way I feel I have benefit and that's what feels true to me. I think I'm proud of the fact that I was able to lead with my heart at a certain point in time in my career.

Speaker 1: 28:41

Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, all right, I'll lighten it up a little bit for you. What's your karaoke?

Speaker 2: 28:47

song. What do you think my karaoke song is?

Speaker 1: 28:52

I know what it is. I just want you to tell everybody what karaoke song.

Speaker 2: 28:54

Live Like you Were Dying by Timmy McGraw.

Speaker 1: 28:58

Tim McGraw yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:02

That one touches me. It's an anthem like you better get living or you're going to get dying.

Speaker 1: 29:09

That's right, absolutely so. You're an actor, you're focused on that. Did you have a childhood actress crush that you had?

Speaker 2: 29:20

I had a childhood actress crush. Well, not that I can remember, I know that at one point in time I thought Natalie Portman was all that kind of special. Yeah, I can't remember when I was a child if I had that.

Speaker 1: 29:33

All right, okay, well, we just had the blessing of seeing your brother in an Elvis costume. I wish I could have that picture?

Speaker 2: 29:40

Yes, we did. I don't know if that was a blessing. I think it burned my eyes, I know right, Exactly, I mean it made him sweat.

Speaker 1: 29:47

That was so funny to see that. What an awesome suit. What about again, as you've grown up and gone through this, what's the most embarrassing fashion trend that you rocked? And they use that man. This is like really, oh yeah, I can tell you that.

Speaker 2: 29:59

Well, there's probably two of them from the 80s. One was those three quarter pants that looked like somebody just took paint and threw it all over them. Those I thought I was hot. You know, those are, those are hot. And then in the 80s to 90s, koogee sweaters were all the rage in Los Angeles. You know, those again were just those colorful, swirly sweaters. So when you look back at them now you're like, oh God, that was that?

Speaker 1: 30:26

Did I really wear those? In terms of that would be good, so funny, all right, last one, last fun one you are going to be a late night show host. Who's going to be your first guest that you have on your late night show?

Speaker 2: 30:40

Who's going to be my first guest on my late night show? Who do I want to see? Wow, you got some good ones, because I there's a bunch of different people that I, that I, that I like that's a great question, the stupid one that keeps coming to my mind, and I don't know why, because I'll watch YouTube sometimes, but I enjoy watching Matt Damon, especially with Jimmy Kimmel. They're a sense of humor. Oh yeah, just playing the part out. I just think I like that sense of humor that he's got. I think he's a very I thought you might have said Ted Lasso you know, even though he's old lead tassel, I just watched that episode and you got me hooked on that thing, man. So I know you're going through it, that it's the third time that I've gone through that See the whole three seasons. It's such a heart warming. I cry all the time. I laugh my ass off. I love that show.

Speaker 1: 31:30

So anybody out?

Speaker 2: 31:31

there just listening. If you have not watched Ted Lasso, it is worth the four to $5 a month to get Apple. I don't get paid for this but it is a heartwarming. It's like. It's like cheers. You know you want to go where everybody knows your name. Just have that warm feeling.

Speaker 1: 31:46

So somebody's going to write the book Maybe it should be you about all the lasso isms that he has. It's pretty. Oh yeah, they got through some of those stories from a leadership standpoint and just a life standpoint it is. It is kind of funny. I mean the English humor at times is a little bit raw, but you all just have to know that it's going forward, but it is getting better. Yeah, you move yourself through that. So I'm we're getting into season two now, at Craig's behest, and I think we're really enjoying it as a family. So hey, craig, this has been a blast what I'm going to do is I'm going to put a link to your website. I know you're not that active on social media, but I want folks to learn more about you by going to the website and they can see what Collins Electric has going on. I'm very honored to be able to work with you on this leadership development journey and Collins business system journey and I'm proud of what you've been doing. So I appreciate you taking the time to invest with the listeners the uncommon leader podcast today.

Speaker 2: 32:37

Well, I am eternally grateful for the opportunity to be able to do this. You know you mean a lot to me and how you've helped me and I I absolutely appreciate that as well. So it's a mutual respect and it's a mutual gratitude. So thank you for the opportunity.

Speaker 1: 32:53

You're welcome, craig. Be well, buddy. Well, that's all for today's episode of the uncommon leader podcast. Thanks for listening in. Please take just a minute to share this podcast with that someone you know that you thought of when you heard this episode. One of the most valuable things you can do is to rate the podcast and leave a review. You can do that on Apple podcasts or you can rate the podcast on Spotify or any other platform you listen. Until next time, go and grow champions.